Biden’s Gas Crisis

[CountValentine]

The fact is there is a supply shortage. This is the most important fact here. According to this survey from 6 months ago, 23% of drivers would consider an EV for their next vehicle and price was the number 1 reason for hesitation. It will take a few years before we get to 23% adoption rate, and mindsets will change; especially as prices come down. In the next few years, we will see lower-priced Chinese EVs take over a huge segment of the car market.

You need to read the whole article. As I have stated and now your own link backs it up the top reasons not to buy are price, charging stations and charging time. Price is a fact. Now if you believe there are enough charging stations then you have to change the mindset that believe there are not. We on the same page now?

Others are spot on: higher initial cost, lengthy charging time, charging hassles (at least at public stations). These concerns suggest automakers need to do a better job telling would-be buyers how EVs have evolved and that studies now show the lifetime cost of ownership in the electric versus gasoline stakes favors EVs.

[moko]

CA has over 1/3 of EV charging stations as of Jan 2022.

that might because 40% of the country's electric vehicles are in that state. (Only 10% of the country's overall vehicles are in CA)

In a recent report, multinational consumer credit reporting company Experian identified the U.S. electric vehicle registration percentages for each state. Unsurprisingly, California was far and away the leader, with a whopping 41.12 percent of all electric vehicle registrations in the Golden State.

[CountValentine]

that might because 40% of the country's electric vehicles are in that state. (Only 10% of the country's overall vehicles are in CA)

Just pointing out that leaves 2/3 for the other 49 states. That isn't many per state.

[avromie7]

You need to read the whole article. As I have stated and now your own link backs it up the top reasons not to buy are price, charging stations and charging time. Price is a fact. Now if you believe there are enough charging stations then you have to change the mindset that believe there are not. We on the same page now?

Others are spot on: higher initial cost, lengthy charging time, charging hassles (at least at public stations). These concerns suggest automakers need to do a better job telling would-be buyers how EVs have evolved and that studies now show the lifetime cost of ownership in the electric versus gasoline stakes favors EVs.

I appreciate the clear post explaining your position.

If I understand correctly, the 2 main issues are price and the perceived lack of charging infrastructure.

The higher prices are not an issue, cheaper models will start being released and current models will go down in price (at least inflation adjusted) as the market matures. As of now they haven't slowed EV adoption because people are still buying them.

The charging perception issues will be resolved by the increased adoption. People will hear from their friends about how it's really not an issue in the real world. I'm seeing this play out on a daily basis.

Charging times are still longer than fill up times, but it only matters on a really long trip being planned without much stopping time. Say a trip from NYC to MIA or even Canada, and you want to drive through the night while stopping for no more than a 5 minute gas and bathroom break every few hours. At this point the cars have limited charging speed, and even the ones that can handle 350kW can only do it for a very limited amount of time up to a fairly low state of charge before it starts to taper. This is something that will take time for battery technology to improve. As far as government incentives, I don't think the current incentives will get enough 350kW chargers installed, but I don't either think incentives are the solution. With time the cost to install them will come down and the demand will increase, especially on highways used for long drives.

[avromie7]

Just pointing out that leaves 2/3 for the other 49 states. That isn't many per state.

You can't put the horse before the cart. They need to be built in lockstep with EV adoption.

[aygart]

No those are results from surveys/polls. Do a simple google search. You have the theories and I have the surveys/facts to back it up.
Just because Tesla has a shortage is meaningless in the big picture.

That the hotel in NE not having a charger is what is preventing them?

[CountValentine]

I appreciate the clear post explaining your position.

If I understand correctly, the 2 main issues are price and the perceived lack of charging infrastructure.

The higher prices are not an issue, cheaper models will start being released and current models will go down in price (at least inflation adjusted) as the market matures. As of now they haven't slowed EV adoption because people are still buying them.

The charging perception issues will be resolved by the increased adoption. People will hear from their friends about how it's really not an issue in the real world. I'm seeing this play out on a daily basis.

Charging times are still longer than fill up times, but it only matters on a really long trip being planned without much stopping time. Say a trip from NYC to MIA or even Canada, and you want to drive through the night while stopping for no more than a 5 minute gas and bathroom break every few hours. At this point the cars have limited charging speed, and even the ones that can handle 350kW can only do it for a very limited amount of time up to a fairly low state of charge before it starts to taper. This is something that will take time for battery technology to improve. As far as government incentives, I don't think the current incentives will get enough 350kW chargers installed, but I don't either think incentives are the solution. With time the cost to install them will come down and the demand will increase, especially on highways used for long drives.

All your views seem to be projections. That is fine but is not what is happening now. We are getting somewhere because we seem to agree what the general public sees as the problem. Now if you believe that is a perception (I don't) on their part then it is up to the industry to change that.

The government is going to need to bankroll the level 3 and future charging systems.

[CountValentine]

That the hotel in NE not having a charger is what is preventing them?

No, probably over 70% of the hotels not having them is.

Do you have any constructive input besides your non-sense questions?

[aygart]

No, probably over 70% of the hotels not having them is.

Do you have any constructive input besides your non-sense questions?

I don't think anyone more than a handful of people cares about hotels. People care about apartment complexes, office buildings, and businesses.

[avromie7]

All your views seem to be projections. That is fine but is not what is happening now. We are getting somewhere because we seem to agree what the general public sees as the problem. Now if you believe that is a perception (I don't) on their part then it is up to the industry to change that.

The government is going to need to bankroll the level 3 and future charging systems.

My views are exactly what is happening now and where the trends are headed. More government involvement will only make things worse.

I spent a lot of time detailing the facts and trends, I don't appreciate it being brushed aside as "projections"

[CountValentine]

I don't think anyone cares about hotels. People care about apartment complexes, office buildings, and businesses.

When you are traveling cross country the number one concern will be charging stations. AFAIK most stop at hotels.
Before you ask what % of EV's travel cross country the answer is very few because of lack of charging. 

[aygart]

When you are traveling cross country the number one concern will be charging stations. AFAIK most stop at hotels.
Before you ask what % of EV's travel cross country the answer is very few because of lack of charging. 

Not what percentage of EVs but what percentage of ICEs

[CountValentine]

I spent a lot of time detailing the facts and trends, I don't appreciate it being brushed aside as "projections"

Sorry but trends are not even as good as protections.
Lets see if can agree on facts.
4.5% of all cars sold in the US in Q4 2021 were EV's. There best ever.
Ford Ford F-Series pickup alone sold almost twice as many trucks than all EV's combined.
Can we agree on these two facts?

ETA: Corrected sales to be 4.5% in last Q.

[CountValentine]

Not what percentage of EVs but what percentage of ICEs

Have no idea what you are asking. How about you do some research to make your point?

[moko]

Just pointing out that leaves 2/3 for the other 49 states. That isn't many per state.

if there aren't many electric vehicles, then presumably they don't need many. But that's just my simple minded take

[avromie7]

Sorry but trends are not even as good as protections.
Lets see if can agree on facts.
3% of all cars sold in the US in 2021 were EV's. There best year ever.
Ford Ford F-Series pickup alone sold almost twice as many trucks than all EV's combined.
Can we agree on these two facts?

I didn't verify the numbers, but sure.

[aygart]

Sorry but trends are not even as good as protections.
Lets see if can agree on facts.
3% of all cars sold in the US in 2021 were EV's. There best year ever.
Ford Ford F-Series pickup alone sold almost twice as many trucks than all EV's combined.
Can we agree on these two facts?

Do you mean reserved?

[avromie7]

Have no idea what you are asking. How about you do some research to make your point?

He's saying that the only people who wouldn't buy an EV due to lack of hotels chargers are people who normally make cross-country trips while stopping at a hotel. Since that only constitutes a minority of cars owners, it doesn't have much of an effect on EV adoption.

[aygart]

Have no idea what you are asking. How about you do some research to make your point?

I think the percentage who care about charging on a cross country drive is not going to move the needle. People care much more about their commute to work.

[CountValentine]

if there aren't many electric vehicles, then presumably they don't need many. But that's just my simple minded take

Isn't it a catch 22. Living in area that doesn't have charging stations you are less likely to buy an EV?