Author Topic: Biden’s Gas Crisis  (Read 129097 times)

Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #780 on: March 28, 2022, 10:54:59 PM »
the million dollar question for every govt subsidy. Why pick on this one specifically
Because @CountValentine believes that's the only way EVs will go mainstream.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #781 on: March 28, 2022, 11:06:02 PM »
Because @CountValentine believes that's the only way EVs will go mainstream.
Never said such a thing. Please link where I said that.
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #782 on: March 28, 2022, 11:10:27 PM »
It's not just a question of where the charging stations are, it's a matter of having them in conspicuous and convenient places. Everyone is comfortable driving locally and long distance because they know there will always be a gas station within a reliable distance that won't be a hassle to find.
As a non ev owner, I think I've seen charging stations here and there, but if you'd ask me how many there are nearby I'd probably guess maybe a couple dozen within a few mile radius as opposed to probably hundreds of gas stations. Whether or not I'm correct, this is probably the perception of the general public. If there would be charging stations that looked like gas stations on street corners and highway exits, that would probably change thing.
Also, I am sure plenty of people that mostly use their car for a local commute in a city that has charging stations, still won't buy an ev because maybe once or twice a year they want to take a road trip and feel they won't be able to.
(Not commenting on whether a subsidy would be a solution)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #783 on: March 28, 2022, 11:16:45 PM »
It's not just a question of where the charging stations are, it's a matter of having them in conspicuous and convenient places. Everyone is comfortable driving locally and long distance because they know there will always be a gas station within a reliable distance that won't be a hassle to find.
As a non ev owner, I think I've seen charging stations here and there, but if you'd ask me how many there are nearby I'd probably guess maybe a couple dozen within a few mile radius as opposed to probably hundreds of gas stations. Whether or not I'm correct, this is probably the perception of the general public. If there would be charging stations that looked like gas stations on street corners and highway exits, that would probably change thing.
Also, I am sure plenty of people that mostly use their car for a local commute in a city that has charging stations, still won't buy an ev because maybe once or twice a year they want to take a road trip and feel they won't be able to.
(Not commenting on whether a subsidy would be a solution)
This is pretty much the mindset out there. Correct or not that is the reality.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #784 on: March 28, 2022, 11:27:04 PM »
It's not just a question of where the charging stations are, it's a matter of having them in conspicuous and convenient places. Everyone is comfortable driving locally and long distance because they know there will always be a gas station within a reliable distance that won't be a hassle to find.
As a non ev owner, I think I've seen charging stations here and there, but if you'd ask me how many there are nearby I'd probably guess maybe a couple dozen within a few mile radius as opposed to probably hundreds of gas stations. Whether or not I'm correct, this is probably the perception of the general public. If there would be charging stations that looked like gas stations on street corners and highway exits, that would probably change thing.
Also, I am sure plenty of people that mostly use their car for a local commute in a city that has charging stations, still won't buy an ev because maybe once or twice a year they want to take a road trip and feel they won't be able to.
(Not commenting on whether a subsidy would be a solution)
You should never need a charging station in your home town. You should be able to charge at home (or work) without ever having to "go fill up" like you do with a gas car. For this reason we don't need as many charging stations as gas stations.

In terms of "maybe once or twice a year they want to take a road trip", how would your perception change if you neighbor, co-worker, and BIL all told you that overall it was almost as convenient as gas.

For example: We drove for 3 hours before stopping for 25 minutes to charge, stretch legs, and use the bathroom. We were then able to drive the remaining 2 hours to our destination.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #785 on: March 28, 2022, 11:31:42 PM »
This is pretty much the mindset out there. Correct or not that is the reality.
The solution is to change the mindset, not try to make reality fit the mindset. Every time someone hears how it really isn't as inconvenient as people think it is, and all the other times it's more convenient and cheaper they will make the change.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #786 on: March 28, 2022, 11:34:38 PM »
The solution is to change the mindset, not try to make reality fit the mindset. Every time someone hears how it really isn't as inconvenient as people think it is, and all the other times it's more convenient and cheaper they will make the change.
Telling them they have to stop for 25 minutes to charge is not going to help.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #787 on: March 28, 2022, 11:37:45 PM »
Telling them they have to stop for 25 minutes to charge is not going to help.
25 minute stop on a 5 hour trip is not a problem for most people. Even with a gas car most people would stop for 15+ minutes for gas, bathroom, and snacks.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #788 on: March 28, 2022, 11:40:33 PM »
25 minute stop on a 5 hour trip is not a problem for most people. Even with a gas car most people would stop for 15+ minutes for gas, bathroom, and snacks.
I drive to WI over 5 hours with no stop. See the problem here?
This is the difference between someone who owns an EV and someone who doesn't.
Also the longer the trip the less you want to be waiting around.
What happens when you pull into the dinner for lunch and a charge and there is no charging station?
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #789 on: March 28, 2022, 11:40:58 PM »


You should never need a charging station in your home town. You should be able to charge at home (or work) without ever having to "go fill up" like you do with a gas car. For this reason we don't need as many charging stations as gas stations.



You may not need as many if people can charge at home, but then there will be less for travellers, which will make traveling inherently less convenient.
Again, I am talking about perception, not necessarily based on reality. Even a silly hang up can be hard to get past. For example, if you tell me gas will take 25 min on a road trip, I would be annoyed, even though if I think about it, realistically, a stop takes about that long anyway by the time you use the bathroom, change diapers and buy a drink. But perception is just hard to change. I guess hearing from others about their experience would be helpful.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #790 on: March 28, 2022, 11:45:08 PM »
I guess hearing from others about their experience would be helpful.
Just make sure you hear both sides and not just the cheerleading side.  ;)
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #791 on: March 28, 2022, 11:52:39 PM »

You may not need as many if people can charge at home, but then there will be less for travellers, which will make traveling inherently less convenient.
Again, I am talking about perception, not necessarily based on reality. Even a silly hang up can be hard to get past. For example, if you tell me gas will take 25 min on a road trip, I would be annoyed, even though if I think about it, realistically, a stop takes about that long anyway by the time you use the bathroom, change diapers and buy a drink. But perception is just hard to change. I guess hearing from others about their experience would be helpful.
You don't need "more for travelers", you need them in the proper places for travelers. If you look at a map of superchargers, you'll see the clear paths crossing the entire US along all the major highways. It's becoming more difficult to see as more superchargers are added, but it's still quite clear in rural US and Canada.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #792 on: March 28, 2022, 11:53:33 PM »
I drive to WI over 5 hours with no stop. See the problem here?
This is the difference between someone who owns an EV and someone who doesn't.
Also the longer the trip the less you want to be waiting around.
What happens when you pull into the dinner for lunch and a charge and there is no charging station?
How often and how many miles? You can make it on a single tank of gas and no bathroom breaks?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #793 on: March 28, 2022, 11:58:12 PM »
How often and how many miles? You can make it on a single tank of gas and no bathroom breaks?
5 1/2 hours, 350 miles straight through.
Look I am trying to show ways to make it easier for EV's.
I don't even want to get into all the draw backs involved.
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #794 on: March 28, 2022, 11:59:36 PM »
You don't need "more for travelers", you need them in the proper places for travelers. If you look at a map of superchargers, you'll see the clear paths crossing the entire US along all the major highways. It's becoming more difficult to see as more superchargers are added, but it's still quite clear in rural US and Canada.
I guess. Proper places means wherever you go, you see it. People don't only travel on highways, and even if they are primarily driving on the interstate, sometimes it just works out better to fill up when stopping anyway in a town or along a local road. Strategic spots for a planned trip makes sense on paper, but in reality people just want to fill up whenever they are in the mood.
This is America. We do whatever we want whenever the heck we want, just because we can.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #795 on: March 29, 2022, 12:39:30 AM »
I don’t think some of you realize how easy it is to find a spot to charge a Tesla. The car literally automatically finds the closest supercharger on the way to a destination. It ain’t rocket science. Even if your hotel didn’t have a charger you could easily find other nearby chargers on the way.

EV adoption right now is only limited by EV production.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #796 on: March 29, 2022, 12:49:20 AM »
Even if your hotel didn’t have a charger you could easily find other nearby chargers on the way.
That isn't what the consumer wants. I know we are spoiled but that is reality.
EV adoption right now is only limited by EV production.
That is only one of several issues.
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Offline moko

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #797 on: March 29, 2022, 05:12:03 AM »
You should never need a charging station in your home town. You should be able to charge at home (or work) without ever having to "go fill up" like you do with a gas car. For this reason we don't need as many charging stations as gas stations.

In terms of "maybe once or twice a year they want to take a road trip", how would your perception change if you neighbor, co-worker, and BIL all told you that overall it was almost as convenient as gas.

For example: We drove for 3 hours before stopping for 25 minutes to charge, stretch legs, and use the bathroom. We were then able to drive the remaining 2 hours to our destination.
for. A family with kids , it would change a lot.
We drive BOS- NYC area fairly often. If we stop, even just for gas or bathroom, it turns into a ln hour stop. Therefore, we regularly drive BOS - LKWD (275 mi) without a single stop. Most EVs can only do half that.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #798 on: March 29, 2022, 05:39:42 AM »
That isn't what the consumer wants. I know we are spoiled but that is reality. That is only one of several issues.

You are going in circles, ignoring actual EV supply not even close to meeting sales demand. You need to get out more.

You are also stuck in an outdated mindset that we need 100 gas stations scattered around every city and EV chargers in every grocery store. We need gas stations because you can’t fill up at home or at work. Think of your cell phone. You charge it at home, at the office, in the car. Maybe in the airport, and on the plane. You don’t need a USB charger in every pizza store and grocery store to make cell phones more appealing. And you don’t need chargers 2 miles away from your home when your battery lasts 300 miles and you can charge at home while sleeping. You need chargers in the high touch point areas and that’s about it.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 05:45:43 AM by yuneeq »
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #799 on: March 29, 2022, 06:51:39 AM »
for. A family with kids , it would change a lot.
We drive BOS- NYC area fairly often. If we stop, even just for gas or bathroom, it turns into a ln hour stop. Therefore, we regularly drive BOS - LKWD (275 mi) without a single stop. Most EVs can only do half that.
You are in a unique situation where you regularly drive 275 miles non-stop. As of now 275 miles is probably pushing the real world limits of the Long Range Model 3/Y. With time, 400 mile EPA range will become readily available. Additionally, you probably drive a minivan, but there aren't any EV family cars on the market. If I had to guess, Hyundai and Kia will be first to market with what is essentially an EV version of the Palisade/Telluride.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.