Author Topic: Biden’s Gas Crisis  (Read 129731 times)

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #800 on: March 29, 2022, 07:05:41 AM »
Telling them they have to stop for 25 minutes to charge is not going to help.

Yup. And if there are two cars ahead of you it becomes an hour and a half added to the trip...

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #801 on: March 29, 2022, 07:16:17 AM »
I drive to WI over 5 hours with no stop. See the problem here?

+100

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #802 on: March 29, 2022, 07:34:29 AM »
You are going in circles, ignoring actual EV supply not even close to meeting sales demand. You need to get out more.

You are also stuck in an outdated mindset that we need 100 gas stations scattered around every city and EV chargers in every grocery store. We need gas stations because you can’t fill up at home or at work. Think of your cell phone. You charge it at home, at the office, in the car. Maybe in the airport, and on the plane. You don’t need a USB charger in every pizza store and grocery store to make cell phones more appealing. And you don’t need chargers 2 miles away from your home when your battery lasts 300 miles and you can charge at home while sleeping. You need chargers in the high touch point areas and that’s about it.
What you are saying makes sense, but we are talking about changing this mindset, which I'd expect many many people have. Until people see that there are charging stations where they need them, it will be difficult to convince them with analogies to cell phones, as much as it may be correct.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #803 on: March 29, 2022, 07:47:23 AM »
What you are saying makes sense, but we are talking about changing this mindset, which I'd expect many many people have. Until people see that there are charging stations where they need them, it will be difficult to convince them with analogies to cell phones, as much as it may be correct.
When you have many friends, relatives, and acquaintances with EVs you start to figure out is and what is really an issue and what's just FUD/misunderstanding. Most families have 2 cars, people will get 1 EV, and when they realize how convenient it is they will get a second one.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #804 on: March 29, 2022, 07:49:13 AM »
Yup. And if there are two cars ahead of you it becomes an hour and a half added to the trip...
There shouldn't be a line waiting, and definitely not 2x the number of available stalls.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #805 on: March 29, 2022, 08:41:42 AM »
Most families have 2 cars.

I'd love to see numbers on what percentage of people who have EVs also have a gas car. My guess is that it's pretty high (and that your projection of people buying 2 EVs is a long way off-)

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #806 on: March 29, 2022, 08:46:08 AM »
There shouldn't be a line waiting, and definitely not 2x the number of available stalls.

That's because (almost) no one uses EVs for long drives. If you want that to change, the 25 minute charge time is going to have to come down significantly.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #807 on: March 29, 2022, 09:30:19 AM »
I'd love to see numbers on what percentage of people who have EVs also have a gas car. My guess is that it's pretty high (and that your projection of people buying 2 EVs is a long way off-)
Many early adopters (people who have EVs for 3-5+ years) currently have 2 EVs. The biggest obstacle right now is availability of vehicle type. There aren't any EV family cars or pickups currently available, I'm sure they constitute a very big proportion of EV owners second cars.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #808 on: March 29, 2022, 09:35:02 AM »
That's because (almost) no one uses EVs for long drives. If you want that to change, the 25 minute charge time is going to have to come down significantly.
Most people who drive a 5 hour trip stop for a short break in the middle. Once your trip is 6-7+ hours basically non-stop, charging can become cumbersome.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #809 on: March 29, 2022, 09:35:39 AM »
5 1/2 hours, 350 miles straight through.
Look I am trying to show ways to make it easier for EV's.
I don't even want to get into all the draw backs involved.
Then you're probably beat off with a PHEV.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Joeymc

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #810 on: March 29, 2022, 10:22:09 AM »
120 characters? Hmm, I wonder what I could write with 64 characters. Boy, it's gonna be hard to use up 15 characters. W-

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #811 on: March 29, 2022, 10:24:23 AM »
You are going in circles, ignoring actual EV supply not even close to meeting sales demand. You need to get out more.
I am not ignoring the supply issue. You are ignoring every poll/survey out there for the top reasons people won't buy EV's. Supply has zero to do with those reasons. If there was no supply issue those reasons still have to be addressed. You just don't get it.
You are also stuck in an outdated mindset that we need 100 gas stations scattered around every city and EV chargers in every grocery store. We need gas stations because you can’t fill up at home or at work.
I am not stuck anywhere. You just don't want to except the reality of the reasons against EV's.
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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #812 on: March 29, 2022, 10:24:52 AM »
Then you're probably beat off with a PHEV.
Defeats the purpose.
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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #813 on: March 29, 2022, 10:39:19 AM »

Maybe they need to talk to @yuneeq and @avromie7 who keep saying there is no charger issue.  :)
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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #814 on: March 29, 2022, 10:47:30 AM »
I am all for EV's. I wish everyone had one right now. Burying your head in the sand pretending there isn't issues that need to be addressed will get us nowhere. The bright spot I see is so far, this isn't a political issue which would doom EV's.

Once we get rid of ICE cars, then we can go in circles what a big mistake it was since EV's are too big of headaches.  :)
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #815 on: March 29, 2022, 11:15:13 AM »


I just watched this video, and the first thing I thought is that this must be about a year old. I was right on target because the industry changed in the past year. The number of supercharger locations increased by a third since then. The big mistake he makes that some here also make is assuming that we need as many chargers as gas stations, this is simply not true. Most people won't need to use a public charger very often. The comparison that most people live 4 miles from a gas station and 31 miles from a charger is irrelevant, you don't need a public charger near your house.

He also discusses the (former) dead spot between TX and CO, while that could affect someone who may drive that route, it makes no difference to most of the country who doesn't plan on ever driving there. I know that there aren't any dead spots for hundreds of miles all around where I live, it really makes no difference to me how many chargers there are or aren't in Montana. While I'm sure it affects some potential buyers, it is irrelevant to the overwhelming majority who can charge at home and get to anywhere they can imagine driving in the next 5 years without getting stuck in a dead spot.

The long term solution will most likely include supercapaciters, which can basically charge instantly, but that's not even ready for prototypes yet.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #816 on: March 29, 2022, 11:25:47 AM »
You just don't get it. You aren't worried about TX/CO , Montana, hotels or many other issue.
Are you worried about no apartment complexes in the suburbs around me that don't have chargers?
All the you are not worried about situation just eliminated tens of millions of future costumers.

Is it true there are different charging plugs that are not compatible? If so that is death sentence to get widely accepted.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #817 on: March 29, 2022, 11:28:55 AM »
I am not ignoring the supply issue. You are ignoring every poll/survey out there for the top reasons people won't buy EV's. Supply has zero to do with those reasons. If there was no supply issue those reasons still have to be addressed. You just don't get it.I am not stuck anywhere. You just don't want to except the reality of the reasons against EV's.

The main reason why I declined purchasing the Mona Lisa is because it’s too clunky and didn’t fit on my wall. Also too expensive.

Reality is, every new technology has a predictable adoption curve, some people adopt earlier and some are laggards. The laggards will always have excuses otherwise they wouldn’t be laggards. https://whatfix.com/blog/technology-adoption-curve/
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #818 on: March 29, 2022, 11:38:30 AM »
You just don't get it. You aren't worried about TX/CO , Montana, hotels or many other issue.
Are you worried about no apartment complexes in the suburbs around me that don't have chargers?
All the you are not worried about situation just eliminated tens of millions of future costumers.
Apartment complexes should definitely be a priority as @aygart said yesterday. A lack of charging infrastructure in remote areas of the country is only an issue for people who live near there. We definitely need to solve it to get to 80% adoption rate, but it won't change the adoption curve if most people in Montana are later on the curve. These "dead gaps" are being closed, I'd be shocked if you can still find anything near the 200 something mile gap he discussed along any major highways.

Is it true there are different charging plugs that are not compatible? If so that is death sentence to get widely accepted.
I think almost everyone (except for Tesla) is using j1772 for level 1&2 and CCS for DCFC. The j1772 connector fits into (part of) the CCS connector. ChaDeMo is probably going to disappear completely. So while there are a few different ones it's mostly Tesla vs j1772/CCS.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Biden’s Gas Crisis
« Reply #819 on: March 29, 2022, 11:41:26 AM »
So the poll/survey/facts show we have a charging issue. Just ignore that and spew non-sense.
This admin is proposing 500k charging units. Instead of embracing them the foolish argument is trying to be made we don't have a charging issue. 
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