In major shift, CDC to announce fully vaccinated people can stop wearing masks indoors and outdoors

[Yehuda57]

This seems to be the biggest point of contention. "Kids and schools" aren't the issue; it's how we deal with kids under 5 or 7 (WHO recommends masks over 5). I don't disagree with your complaint, but I do think that throwing out everything the CDC says because they don't address legitimate issues with younger children is problematic.

FTR, both statements that came out (masking vaccinated people indoors and K-12) don't apply to kids under 5.

Classic strawman. I never said to throw out everything the CDC says, but they have discredited themselves and shot themselves in the foot by what they've done.

And yes, the *current* mandate applies to kids over 5, but we've seen since covid started that the CDC has been stricter on kids than virtually every other country, and they continue to be stricter on kids (planes still require masks for 3 year olds, for heaven's sake), and so we can be legitimately worried that their ever-changing guidelines will soon suggest masking 3-5 year olds too, or shutting down in-person schools entirely in some areas.
 
And you do know that Fauci himself says 3-year-olds should be forced to wear masks, right?

[neveryou]

https://twitter.com/Alicia_Smith19/status/1420417010752761860?s=19

[Lurker]

Do yourself a favor and read what they are quoting from the actual CDC statement before posting it here.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

[Yehuda57]

Do yourself a favor and read what they are quoting from the actual CDC statement before posting it here.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

Emphasis mine

Studies from India with vaccines not authorized for use in the United States have noted relatively high viral loads and larger cluster sizes associated with infections with Delta, regardless of vaccination status.(96)  These early data suggest that breakthrough Delta infections are transmissible.

96: Mlcochova P KS, Dhar MS, et al. . SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2 Delta variant emergence and vaccine breakthrough. Research Square. 2021 https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-637724/v1external icon

And the study that links to had "rejected after peer review" as its status yesterday, and today it says "Under Review".

[Lurker]

Emphasis mine
And the study that links to had "rejected after peer review" as its status yesterday, and today it says "Under Review".

Here's the full 2 paragraphs:

Breakthrough infections

Despite high efficacy, vaccine breakthrough cases are rare but inevitable, including infections caused by circulating variants.  From January through May 2021, COVID-NET data from laboratory-confirmed COVID-19-associated hospitalizations in adults ≥18 years of age, for whom vaccination status is known, showed <3% of hospitalizations occurred in fully vaccinated persons. CDC conducts nationwide monitoring of vaccine breakthrough cases resulting in hospitalization or death. In general, symptoms and duration of illness in vaccine breakthrough infections have been attenuated compared with cases among unvaccinated people.(156) Among hospitalized or fatal breakthrough cases reported to CDC as of July 19, 2021, 74% were aged 65 years or older. One U.S. study observed that 44% of breakthrough infections were among people who were immunocompromised, similar to results reported from Israel.(157, 158) Breakthrough infections may boost immunity; four weeks after an outbreak in a long-term care facility, fully vaccinated residents who experienced breakthrough infections were found to have significantly higher antibody levels than vaccinated individuals who did not experience breakthrough infections.(159)

The proportions of VOCs observed among breakthrough cases has been similar to that observed in CDC’s national genomic surveillance,(160) but interpretation of these data is challenging because of local variation and changes in variant proportions over time. An Israeli study of VOC infections in adults fully vaccinated with Pfizer-BioNTech compared with unvaccinated matched controls, during a time when Alpha was the dominant strain and Beta was detected in <1% of all specimens, found a higher proportion of Beta in fully vaccinated cases (matched odds ratio = 8.0) and a higher proportion of Alpha in partially vaccinated cases (matched odds ratio = 2.6), though small sample sizes, especially for Beta, were noted as a limitation.(161) A study from Houston, Texas observed that Delta caused a significantly higher rate of breakthrough infections in fully vaccinated people compared with infections from other variants, but noted that only 6.5% of all COVID-19 cases occurred in fully vaccinated individuals.(162) Studies from India with vaccines not authorized for use in the United States have noted relatively high viral loads and larger cluster sizes associated with infections with Delta, regardless of vaccination status.(96)  These early data suggest that breakthrough Delta infections are transmissible. Unpublished data are consistent with this, and additional data collection and studies are underway to understand the level and duration of transmissibility from Delta vaccine breakthrough infections in the United States and other settings.

Did you really read through that and conclude that the assertion of breakthrough cases is based on the studies from India, even partially?

[Yehuda57]

Here's the full 2 paragraphs:

Did you really read through that and conclude that the assertion of breakthrough cases is based on the studies from India, even partially?

What do you mean "even partially"? If it wasn't, why is it there?

I'm not an expert, but the breakthrough numbers don't seem to be so significant as to warrant an overhaul of the recommendations. And as to my previous point, note how much is written about the adverse affects of mask-wearing, which is limited to difficulty breathing, and doesn't even mention any other potential adverse effects.

[Lurker]

What do you mean "even partially"? If it wasn't, why is it there?

As concurring anecdotal data? I don't know. But it reads like an afterthought to all the data from the US and Israel.

I'm not an expert, but the breakthrough numbers don't seem to be so significant as to warrant an overhaul of the recommendations.

Data out of Israel seems to be pretty significant.

And as to my previous point, note how much is written about the adverse affects of mask-wearing, which is limited to difficulty breathing, and doesn't even mention any other potential adverse effects.

Where?

[Yehuda57]

As concurring anecdotal data? I don't know. But it reads like an afterthought to all the data from the US and Israel.

Data out of Israel seems to be pretty significant.

Not at all an after-though
https://www.statnews.com/2021/07/27/cdc-recommend-masks-indoors-even-for-those-vaccinated-against-covid-19/

An administration official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told STAT that health experts do not have studies proving that fully vaccinated people are transmitting the virus. Rather, the official said, the updated guidance is based on studies showing that vaccinated people who contract the Delta variant have similarly high levels of virus in their airways, which suggested that they may be infectious to others. With other variants, vaccinated people had substantially lower levels of virus in their noses and throats compared to unvaccinated people.

As for Israel, one of the scary reports was an error:
https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059124700700677

Again, I'm no expert, but the breakthrough cases don't seem to be that significant. 

Where?

End of the CDC report, in the face cover section.