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« Last edited by yesitsme on July 18, 2021, 01:46:35 PM »

Author Topic: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL  (Read 122551 times)

Offline dovy2

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #460 on: June 29, 2021, 10:25:25 PM »
Is there any camera footage still intact? Maybe they can use that

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #462 on: June 29, 2021, 10:55:18 PM »
My understanding is that there are certain areas that they are refusing to search, and others that they are?

So based on grids that they compiled to figure out where apartments probably ended up, the families involved have a better idea who might be found quicker than others?

Offline Lurker

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  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #463 on: June 29, 2021, 10:57:36 PM »
My understanding is that there are certain areas that they are refusing to search, and others that they are?

Where are you getting this understanding from?
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Offline biobook

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #464 on: June 29, 2021, 11:04:12 PM »
I don't get why you need an accurate list now.  They needed names of missing people so that they can contact relatives for photos, DNA samples, dental records so that once they find a person or body or remains, they can identify it.  At this point, missing a name is problematic, because it means they might not have that identifying info.  But what's the concern about duplicate names on the list in the media?  It'll all sort out as they get further along.

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #465 on: June 29, 2021, 11:05:21 PM »
Welcome to DDF
Bureaucracy
Nobody actually takes charge, I think this explains why people keep questioning the SAR operation
@Lurker  how about the PUTPAC method ?
 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 11:14:54 PM by simple26 »

Offline Lurker

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #466 on: June 29, 2021, 11:08:17 PM »
Bureaucracy
Nobody actually takes charge I think this explains why people keep questioning the SAR operation
@Lurker  how the PUTPAC method ?

They're doing an audit now. Hopefully they come out with something more accurate in the morning.
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Offline TimT

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #467 on: June 29, 2021, 11:09:10 PM »
Some of the “duplicates” can be jr or sr. There are a few parents & children with the same name.

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #468 on: June 29, 2021, 11:09:23 PM »
But what's the concern about duplicate names on the list in the media?  It'll all sort out as they get further along.
Not the media. The rescue effort.
I think it matters if there are 50 people missing vs 150.

Offline biobook

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #469 on: June 29, 2021, 11:12:08 PM »
Not the media. The rescue effort.
I think it matters if there are 50 people missing vs 150.
Why does it matter at this point?

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #470 on: June 29, 2021, 11:13:25 PM »
I don't get why you need an accurate list now.  They needed names of missing people so that they can contact relatives for photos, DNA samples, dental records so that once they find a person or body or remains, they can identify it.  At this point, missing a name is problematic, because it means they might not have that identifying info.  But what's the concern about duplicate names on the list in the media?  It'll all sort out as they get further along.
Why does it matter at this point?
It's not just about names, it's about accuracy. They need to know who to look for and where to look for them in order to accurately and efficiently assign resources. Without a map of who is where, they could waste days messing with a part of the building where they won't find anyone.
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Offline biobook

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #471 on: June 29, 2021, 11:24:03 PM »
It's not just about names, it's about accuracy. They need to know who to look for and where to look for them in order to accurately and efficiently assign resources. Without a map of who is where, they could waste days messing with a part of the building where they won't find anyone.
Do you really expect them to take the time to update us with every nitty gritty detail of the search?  Do they need us to micromanage their work?  They've all got much more experience than any of us in just this sort of project. 

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #472 on: June 29, 2021, 11:30:40 PM »
Do you really expect them to take the time to update us with every nitty gritty detail of the search?  Do they need us to micromanage their work?  They've all got much more experience than any of us in just this sort of project.

Absolutely not. I'm 100% for letting the pros do what they are trained to do. I'm also perfectly fine not being updated on the details of the what/where/why/how work is being done. But the numbers they're giving us at every press conference match up with those faulty lists. If it turns out they've been working all this time with no map... that would be a screw up of epic proportions.
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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #473 on: June 29, 2021, 11:41:26 PM »
Where are you getting this understanding from?
I believe I heard them saying that they aren't going near the part of the building that is still standing, as well as east.

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #474 on: June 29, 2021, 11:42:02 PM »
Absolutely not. I'm 100% for letting the pros do what they are trained to do. I'm also perfectly fine not being updated on the details of the what/where/why/how work is being done. But the numbers they're giving us at every press conference match up with those faulty lists. If it turns out they've been working all this time with no map... that would be a screw up of epic proportions.
They dug a trench, to get closer to areas where they thought they might hear or sniff (via dogs) where people were.  Someone determined where to dig that, and how long and how wide it would be.  I'm sure that wasn't random, but was based on some knowledge, perhaps where they expected occupied bedrooms to be. There's some field office that is analyzing data and overseeing that effort, but not holding the press conferences. It's the mayors and heads of fire dept who are updating and comforting the families and the public, and for those purposes, the exact number on the list doesn't seem like a high priority.

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #475 on: June 30, 2021, 12:04:09 AM »
Absolutely not. I'm 100% for letting the pros do what they are trained to do. I'm also perfectly fine not being updated on the details of the what/where/why/how work is being done. But the numbers they're giving us at every press conference match up with those faulty lists. If it turns out they've been working all this time with no map... that would be a screw up of epic proportions.
Why do you give the benefit of the doubt to the engineers the rescuers and the officials directing the rescue efforts etc.. etc.. but yet when it comes to the missing people you think these same officials are taking the info from faulty media lists.

Additionally they have been working with the same numbers since about a day after the collapse. I didn't see any faulty lists listing that numbers of missing.

I'm not saying the numbers are right I'm saying that I give them the benefit of the doubt that they aren't working off of shoddy media reports.

ETA a quote from Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava (as per AP via YWN)
Quote
Over the past few days, we have been conducting an audit of our list of missing persons and we have been working to verify and remove duplicates wherever possible,” she said. “I hope you can understand, we’re getting information from lots of different sources and often not complete so it is very important that we go through to cull the list.”

Detectives have been working around the clock, she said, “to get in touch with all those that have been identified and reaching out to provide information to verify the reports.”
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 12:11:05 AM by ari3 »

Offline ari3

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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #477 on: June 30, 2021, 12:19:00 AM »
Just curious - how many of you thought that Christina Beatriz Elvira and Ruth Oliwkowicz OBM were actually the same person? Better to err on the side of collecting all the names and culling the list as better info comes in.
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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #478 on: June 30, 2021, 12:35:19 AM »
Nice story, but color me skeptical. Did her part of the building actually come down, or was it in the part that remained standing?
If there was that much time (and time to get towels when the building is falling down ::)), there would be more survivors from the part of the building that collapsed IMHO.
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Re: Building Collapses in Surfside, FL, People Still Missing
« Reply #479 on: June 30, 2021, 01:24:33 AM »
Privacy
But why would such a list be private?

Perhaps somone was assumed to be in the building when they weren't,  or were reported as missing and later found. How would they know they were even on the list to come forth and remove themselves?