Building Collapses in Surfside, FL

[Deal Guy]

Meanwhile, the Mexican volunteer rescue crew Brigada de Rescate Topos Tlaltelolco, which flew in to Surfside to aid the rescue efforts, is not currently being activated.

Miami-Dade Fire Rescue spokeswoman Erika Benitez said authorities are aware the Topos rescue team was in Surfside and that they will evaluate whether to request their services in the efforts.

“We know they’re here,” she said. “We have all necessary resources at this time. They will help if we need assistance. Right now, we’re considering it and if the moment comes for them to help, they will join our team.”


Soraya Cohen, who is missing her husband and brother-in-law following the collapse, posed for a photograph with the rescue crew on Tuesday and called them “the best trained Mexican search and rescue crew.”

Cohen, who has criticized the pace of rescue efforts, wrote in a text message accompanying the photo that the crew told her “they are being denied access.”

[TimT]

Meanwhile, the Mexican volunteer rescue crew Brigada de Rescate Topos Tlaltelolco, which flew in to Surfside to aid the rescue efforts, is not currently being activated.

Miami-Dade Fire Rescue spokeswoman Erika Benitez said authorities are aware the Topos rescue team was in Surfside and that they will evaluate whether to request their services in the efforts.

“We know they’re here,” she said. “We have all necessary resources at this time. They will help if we need assistance. Right now, we’re considering it and if the moment comes for them to help, they will join our team.”


Soraya Cohen, who is missing her husband and brother-in-law following the collapse, posed for a photograph with the rescue crew on Tuesday and called them “the best trained Mexican search and rescue crew.”

Cohen, who has criticized the pace of rescue efforts, wrote in a text message accompanying the photo that the crew told her “they are being denied access.”

The Mexican & Israeli teams were brought in to reassure the families that everything possible is being done to rescue them.

[yuneeq]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2021/building-experts-miami-condo-collapse/?itid=hp-top-table-main

[Lurker]

"Authorities in Florida have asked the federal government for another rescue team to help comb through the rubble as they face the possibility of severe weather in the days ahead."

-CBS News

[TimT]

I believe I heard them saying that they aren't going near the part of the building that is still standing, as well as east.

Its very unstable there. Debris has been falling.

[biobook]

It's not just about names, it's about accuracy. They need to know who to look for and where to look for them in order to accurately and efficiently assign resources. Without a map of who is where, they could waste days messing with a part of the building where they won't find anyone.

Here's a map: 
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/30/us/miami-building-missing-dead.html
Those found so far were on floors 6-11.  None from penthouse have been found yet, and none from floors 2-5.  I understand now why they had been trying to tunnel up from the underground garage.

[avromie7]

Here's a map: 
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/30/us/miami-building-missing-dead.html
Those found so far were on floors 6-11.  None from penthouse have been found yet, and none from floors 2-5.  I understand now why they had been trying to tunnel up from the underground garage.

Do we know if anyone is expected to be in the penthouse? I believe it's only 1 unit.

[biobook]

But why would such a list be private?

People are not always where their family thinks they are.  Or with the person their family would have expected.

[Lurker]

Here's a map: 
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/30/us/miami-building-missing-dead.html
Those found so far were on floors 6-11.  None from penthouse have been found yet, and none from floors 2-5.  I understand now why they had been trying to tunnel up from the underground garage.

They have a map of the building. After they find people, the figure out where they were. That's not what I'm talking about. They should have a map of the building with a list of who is expected to be in each unit. This is crucial to rescue efforts.

[biobook]

Do we know if anyone is expected to be in the penthouse? I believe it's only 1 unit.

The map shows an upper penthouse, with one unit, no info, and a penthouse floor with 7 units, 3 of them showing missing people.

[biobook]

They have a map of the building. After they find people, the figure out where they were. That's not what I'm talking about. They should have a map of the building with a list of who is expected to be in each unit. This is crucial to rescue efforts.

Are you unable to click through to see the NYT image?  The map shows the people expected to be in each unit, with a lot of units showing no info.

[LNS]

Here's a map: 
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/30/us/miami-building-missing-dead.html
Those found so far were on floors 6-11.  None from penthouse have been found yet, and none from floors 2-5.  I understand now why they had been trying to tunnel up from the underground garage.

They have a map of the building. After they find people, the figure out where they were. That's not what I'm talking about. They should have a map of the building with a list of who is expected to be in each unit. This is crucial to rescue efforts.

this is exactly that a map showing were everyone would have been at the time of the collapse
and i don't see any duplicates there either

i would assume the people from the uppermost floors should be the easiest to locate as they would be closest to the top
surprised that the missing people from penthouses have yet to be found

[Lurker]

this is exactly that a map showing were everyone would have been at the time of the collapse
and i don't see any duplicates there either

i would assume the people from the uppermost floors should be the easiest to locate as they would be closest to the top
surprised that the missing people from penthouses have yet to be found

I just went through it. There are 85 total names here. I see at least 3 names missing, including one person whose body was already recovered. This looks like something put together by the NYT, and not anything remotely official. It also looks like it was complied very recently.

ETA: I'm also very, very confused. They have info on 41 of the units in the collapsed section, and have another 40 with no information. I was under the impression that 55 units collapsed.

[skyguy918]

Here's a map: 
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/30/us/miami-building-missing-dead.html
Those found so far were on floors 6-11.  None from penthouse have been found yet, and none from floors 2-5.  I understand now why they had been trying to tunnel up from the underground garage.

Why do all the reports say 55 units were destroyed? From that article, it seems to be 70 gone entirely, 80 if you count the unit on each floor that was essentially ripped in half (which... why wouldn't you count).

ETA: Beat me to it with your ETA.

[biobook]

I just went through it. There are 85 total names here. I see at least 3 names missing, including one person whose body was already recovered. This looks like something put together by the NYT, and not anything remotely official. It also looks like it was complied very recently.

Yes, it's very recent, just posted today. 5 "authors" are listed, so they're not just copying something they got from the mayor's office, must've figured this out from public sources. I have no doubt that those working there have something more accurate, but they're not journalists.  Why should stop their work to create images like this for the curious public?

[Lurker]

Why do you give the benefit of the doubt to the engineers the rescuers and the officials directing the rescue efforts etc.. etc.. but yet when it comes to the missing people you think these same officials are taking the info from faulty media lists.

Additionally they have been working with the same numbers since about a day after the collapse. I didn't see any faulty lists listing that numbers of missing.

I'm not saying the numbers are right I'm saying that I give them the benefit of the doubt that they aren't working off of shoddy media reports.

ETA a quote from Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava (as per AP via YWN)

Over the past few days, we have been conducting an audit of our list of missing persons and we have been working to verify and remove duplicates wherever possible,” she said. “I hope you can understand, we’re getting information from lots of different sources and often not complete so it is very important that we go through to cull the list.”

Detectives have been working around the clock, she said, “to get in touch with all those that have been identified and reaching out to provide information to verify the reports.”

I give the benefit of the doubt when I can see scenarios in which people may be right. When engineers are saying something isn't safe, I have no problem accepting that they may be right. When the people in charge say work needs to progress at a certain speed for safety reasons, I can accept that, too. Here, I'm having trouble visualizing a scenario that warrants giving them the benefit of the doubt.

As I see it, there are 3 possibilities:
1) They know exactly how many people are missing and where they were supposed to be. That number matches the numbers they've been giving at every press conference, even if the lists published by the media have the wrong names.
2) They know exactly how many people are missing and where they were supposed to be. That number does NOT match the numbers they've been giving at every press conference, but don't feel the need to give accurate information to the families or the general public.
3) They don't know how many people are missing or where they were supposed to be, and the numbers they've been giving at the press conferences are from lists compiled by various agencies and media outlets.

I know #1 isn't right, because they said so. That's why they're auditing the list now. That leaves 2 or 3, both of which are unacceptable as we near a full week since the collapse.

[Lurker]

Yes, it's very recent, just posted today. 5 "authors" are listed, so they're not just copying something they got from the mayor's office, must've figured this out from public sources. I have no doubt that those working there have something more accurate, but they're not journalists.  Why should stop their work to create images like this for the curious public?

I have no problem with them creating and publishing the map. I think it's great. I also think this should have been done by the officials and given to the SAR teams within a couple of days after the collapse. I don't know how a rescue mission can be done efficiently without it.

[Lurker]

The 12th victim has been identified as Hilda Noriega.

https://twitter.com/MiamiDadePD/status/1410221743877279748

[aygart]

I give the benefit of the doubt when I can see scenarios in which people may be right. When engineers are saying something isn't safe, I have no problem accepting that they may be right. When the people in charge say work needs to progress at a certain speed for safety reasons, I can accept that, too. Here, I'm having trouble visualizing a scenario that warrants giving them the benefit of the doubt.

As I see it, there are 3 possibilities:
1) They know exactly how many people are missing and where they were supposed to be. That number matches the numbers they've been giving at every press conference, even if the lists published by the media have the wrong names.
2) They know exactly how many people are missing and where they were supposed to be. That number does NOT match the numbers they've been giving at every press conference, but don't feel the need to give accurate information to the families or the general public.
3) They don't know how many people are missing or where they were supposed to be, and the numbers they've been giving at the press conferences are from lists compiled by various agencies and media outlets.

I know #1 isn't right, because they said so. That's why they're auditing the list now. That leaves 2 or 3, both of which are unacceptable as we near a full week since the collapse.

So I guess it is a good thing they are come here for our expert analysis from all the people who were crowd control experts a mere few months ago and immunologists before that etc. regarding how it happened to help them stay safe (yesterday everyone was a building engineer) and now they will get a bonus of how to best do the SAR since now that is the hat we are wearing.

It isn’t for the people on DDF, but the experts on site benefit from understanding the faults at play to proceed with their work as safely and effectively as possible.

[biobook]

Why do all the reports say 55 units were destroyed? From that article, it seems to be 70 gone entirely, 80 if you count the unit on each floor that was essentially ripped in half (which... why wouldn't you count).

ETA: Beat me to it with your ETA.

The fog of war. 
My guess is that in the initial confusion someone switched two numbers, and nobody bothered to correct it for the press.  The still-standing part of that "tower" had 5 units/floor, 11 floors = 55. The collapsed section had 7 units/floor, 11 floors = 77 + upper penthouse = 78.

ETA: Or maybe they subtracted the 2 units/floor in the collapsed  section which were attached to the still-standing section, so 5 utterly collapsed units/floor X11=55.