Released Footage of NYC Rep. Mayor Candidate Curtis Sliwa on Orthodox Block Vote

[Jellybelly]

That's a nice puff piece addressing very different issues (secular ed in yeshivos). Explaining why something is the way it is doesn't justify it.

Here's a theory you won't see OJPAC pushing: the poverty level is so high because they want it to be. How many salaries are manipulated to be lower in order to capitalize on handouts and programs? How many lifestyles are built on and around handouts and programs? If somehow the system was set up to reward those above the poverty level, I have no doubt that KJ would have one of the lowest poverty levels in the country. Overnight.

What’s your analysis based on?
Have you ever been to KJ?

[mushkovits]

That's a nice puff piece addressing very different issues (secular ed in yeshivos). Explaining why something is the way it is doesn't justify it.

Here's a theory you won't see OJPAC pushing: the poverty level is so high because they want it to be. How many salaries are manipulated to be lower in order to capitalize on handouts and programs? How many lifestyles are built on and around handouts and programs? If somehow the system was set up to reward those above the poverty level, I have no doubt that KJ would have one of the lowest poverty levels in the country. Overnight.

if anything is puff -its your horrendous response. I just reread it and beautifully explains what the anti-semites and you holler away about all day; poverty

[Lurker]

if anything is puff -its your horrendous response. I just reread it and beautifully explains what the anti-semites and you holler away about all day; poverty

No, it doesn't. It attempts to explain that there isn't really "poverty" in KJ, and that it just looks that way because of lifestyle choices (one working spouse, large families, young parents, etc.). The reality is, those 45% below the official poverty line, however they came to be there, are all collecting government handouts. Do you dispute this?

[Lurker]

What’s your analysis based on?
Have you ever been to KJ?

I didn't analyze. I theorized. How would my having been to KJ change my thoughts?

[whYME]

if anything is puff -its your horrendous response. I just reread it and beautifully explains what the anti-semites and you holler away about all day; poverty

Are you really arguing that incomes in NYC chassidic communities are not often artificially depressed because of Gov benefits?

I'm not saying Lurker's post wasn't exaggerated, but his core point is certainly true.

Not to say this is a distinctly Chassidic/Jewish problem, the system is designed that in such a way that it's better to be "poor" than "median" (at least short term but that's a whole nother discussion)

[Yehuda57]

https://ojpac.org/updates/this-happened-to-tax-rates-when-25000-hasidim-left-a-town

The problem is you believe the rhetoric too much. All lies are built on kernels of truth. So you see that some of the people officially below the poverty line are fudging the numbers, so you assume that the rest of the claims the anti Semites make are true.

Your earlier post about buying votes is wrong on numerous levels.

1) Yes, people are complaining Crown Heights voted as a bloc. They are doing so right now and vastly overstating the votes Jewish CH cast for Adams and Crystal Hudson.

2) Minority communities across the country negotiate with politicians in exchange for securing votes.

Voting as a bloc in your own interests is as American as it gets.

Casting Chassidim as "others" who leech off the system at the expense of "regular" Americans is textbook racism.

[Yehuda57]

Are you really arguing that incomes in NYC chassidic communities are not often artificially depressed because of Gov benefits?

This discussion has nothing to do with Sliwa's assertion that non Jewish taxes are funding Yeshivas, which has more bologna than Beirish's butcher shop

[whYME]

This discussion has nothing to do with Sliwa's assertion that non Jewish taxes are funding Yeshivas, which has more bologna than Beirish's butcher shop

Who said it does? (well other than that what it's discussing other assertions he made in that same video)

[Lurker]

https://ojpac.org/updates/this-happened-to-tax-rates-when-25000-hasidim-left-a-town

The problem is you believe the rhetoric too much. All lies are built on kernels of truth. So you see that some of the people officially below the poverty line are fudging the numbers, so you assume that the rest of the claims the anti Semites make are true.

Your earlier post about buying votes is wrong on numerous levels.

1) Yes, people are complaining Crown Heights voted as a bloc. They are doing so right now and vastly overstating the votes Jewish CH cast for Adams and Crystal Hudson.

2) Minority communities across the country negotiate with politicians in exchange for securing votes.

Voting as a bloc in your own interests is as American as it gets.

Casting Chassidim as "others" who leech off the system at the expense of "regular" Americans is textbook racism.

I'm not going to dispute the article you posted, but it argues against exaggerated claims based on twisted numbers with their own twisted numbers and context.

You're generalizing my statements. In no way, shape, or form am I claiming that anti-Semites don't lie about Jews, or exaggerate truths into anti-Semitic tropes. My comments were on Sliwa and his statements alone. Just because the things he says are used in exaggerated forms to defame Jews, doesn't mean the things he's saying are untrue.

1) I haven't heard the claims about CH voting as a bloc, and if I did, I'd be arguing against them, with the same arguments I used above. There is no power great enough in CH, or in the vast majority of other groups, to guarantee tens of thousands of votes.

2) As I said, it would be out of context for Sliwa to bring up others who may vote in blocs in this setting, because it's not relevant to the people he's talking to.

I said that "I don't have an issue with bloc voting. Tit-for-tat is the name of the game; always has been and always will be." I agree that it is very American to trade votes for special considerations. However, that doesn't mean Sliwa has to like it. He isn't looking to get rid of "the Jewish bloc." His issue is with politicians who trade considerations to any group in exchange for votes. The Jewish bloc is the one relevant to the counties he's addressing.

[Yehuda57]

They guarantee thousands of votes because they have thousands of constituents! Listen to NPR's the improvement Association, communities absolutely do this on a grand scale. And he said they don't vote like regular Americans, that's as anti Semitic as it gets. When the non Jewish population of Rockland County votes in their interests it's all of a sudden American?

You're not addressing the core arguments.
Accusing residents of bloc voting as if it's somehow unfair or gaming the system is racist.
Warning of a minority "taking over" your community is racism.
Accusing (falsely) a minority of leeching off the system is racism.
The idea that non Jewish taxes are funding Yeshivas is an absurd racist lie. The public school system is funded by tens of thousands of Jewish tax payers who don't get any benefits.

[gozalim]

what he said may be classic anti Semitic statements. and I'm not looking to forgive/excuse that.

does that alone mean he hates us? I'm not sure. he's got enough of a public record for everyone to judge that broader question on.

he's a politician/activist, and he's gonna say/do what fits his agenda. if his agenda serves our interests best (relative to the field), then his personal feelings don't mater all that much. I think pushing this clip is gonna be a liberal ploy to make this about feelings instead of actual issues

[ari3]

Instead of screaming anti-Semitism, address the issues he brings up. If he's lying, there's something to the anti-Semitism claim. If he isn't, and we don't like the truths he says, the issue isn't with him.

If I would say blacks have a higher rate of crime or poverty or are more likely to break the law or riot (all true facts) I would be a racist, yet when this attention seeking political wannabe singles out the Jews in a negative way (with some true points, some twisted facts and some outright falsehoods) it's our fault?

[whYME]

If I would say blacks have a higher rate of crime or poverty or are more likely to break the law or riot (all true facts) I would be called a racist,

FTFY

[Lurker]

If I would say blacks have a higher rate of crime or poverty or are more likely to break the law or riot (all true facts) I would be a racist, yet when this attention seeking political wannabe singles out the Jews in a negative way (with some true points, some twisted facts and some outright falsehoods) it's our fault?

This is exactly my point. Just because racists use certain factual statements to promote their racist ideology, doesn't mean that everyone who quotes those facts in is a racist. Sliwa may be saying things which anti-Semites use to justify their hatred, but that doesn't make them false, or him an anti-Semite.

[whYME]

Sliwa may be saying things which anti-Semites use to justify their hatred, but that doesn't make them false, or him an anti-Semite.

IMO the big issue is (mostly) how he said it, not what he said.

[yesitsme]

he lost my respect, needless to say, I always looked up for him as he is the founder of TGA

[yelped]

Just saying, this video wasn't exactly secret until now.

[Yehuda57]

He said similar things on the radio

[yitzgar]

He literally days this stuff all the time

[EliJelly]

he lost my respect

Lol, you probably never listened to his channel before.