Author Topic: Please don't overwhelm our brothers  (Read 43254 times)

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2021, 08:57:17 AM »
Each one individually doesn't bother me much, venting in public about the many flaws of a frum traveler OTOH...

LOL, this doesn't even scratch the surface of any "flaws" of frum travelers. These are jokes about minor annoyances. Something seems to have hit a raw nerve.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2021, 09:27:52 AM »
Looking at his other recent tweets, I'd vote he wrote this tongue in cheek, trying to be humorous.

But then other commenters continued the conversation as if it was literal.

Mildly OT, reminds me of when some non-Chabad relatives of mine said something like “but Chabad pays for it “ as if Chabad’s global headquarters fully funds every Chabad hour (budget would be in the billions, maybe tens of billions depending on scope).
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Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2021, 09:32:16 AM »


That they are pushy for minyanim and tourist info?

Oh the horrors... I'd get where you are coming frum if they posted publicly about calls they get from local PD about arrests of frum travelers or something else actually embarrassing, not sure why this strikes you so badly.

I could think of a few reasons why, but would like to hear your reasons.

Well every one of them has another issue, overall it's seems like they have an underlying issue with Frum Travelers, something that irks them, and each one finds one aspect to annoy him about them.
Yes the Frum Traveler is annoying, but thats what you need to expect as a chabad house, if you don't want them, hang up signs.

I've met Chabad Rabbis all over the world, some are downright rude at the first second, and they do not belong on shlichus, and some are welcoming and loving no matter how much you annoy them, it's a personality issue here. You have to make up your mind what you're here for, if it's not for thr kosher traveler, be clear about it.
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Offline Mordyk

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2021, 09:33:58 AM »
I have met so many shluchim that are so proud and so excited to share any info possible, and are excited for you to come say Hi. and there are the whiners, that should have gone home back to their hometown ages ago. It is a big sacrifice and we outsiders and Chabad house users really appreciate it. BH 95% are excited about what they do. But for those that find it to stressful to be a shaliach then it is not for you. Even if your father or brother was great at it...

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2021, 09:34:56 AM »
LOL, this doesn't even scratch the surface of any "flaws" of frum travelers. These are jokes about minor annoyances. Something seems to have hit a raw nerve.

Why in God's name are we looking to flaunt people's flaws? I have flaws, you have flaws, we all have wrongdoings, the vent in public is a blatant chillul hashem.

 Oh and then the comments where they make it "Team Chabad" vs. "Team Annoying Frum People", c'mon man!
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Offline aygart

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2021, 09:36:16 AM »

Well every one of them has another issue, overall it's seems like they have an underlying issue with Frum Travelers, something that irks them, and each one finds one aspect to annoy him about them.
Yes the Frum Traveler is annoying, but thats what you need to expect as a chabad house, if you don't want them, hang up signs.

I've met Chabad Rabbis all over the world, some are downright rude at the first second, and they do not belong on shlichus, and some are welcoming and loving no matter how much you annoy them, it's a personality issue here. You have to make up your mind what you're here for, if it's not for thr kosher traveler, be clear about it.


 but Chabad cares about shluchim and outreach more than inreach.


Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline dasmo801

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2021, 09:43:58 AM »
Trying not to be judgemental but hard to see what would motivate the original tweet. So you got a few calls from people who are looking for a minyan. Big deal. Maybe take down their numbers and hook them all up together to make a minyan. If that's too much of a bother then just tell them there is no minyan. Or post it on your website. But to go on a public website to complain about the annoying minyan people? Isn't the job about being מרבה כבוד שמים ?

Offline AsherO

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2021, 09:48:58 AM »
I've met Chabad Rabbis all over the world, some are downright rude at the first second, and they do not belong on shlichus, and some are welcoming and loving no matter how much you annoy them, it's a personality issue here. You have to make up your mind what you're here for, if it's not for thr kosher traveler, be clear about it.

This. It seems odd to me that you go on Shlichus to a touristy place, post on your website that you’re there to serve thousands of annual Jewish visitors, and then complain on Twitter that they contact you.

I agree that asking a Chabad rabbi to send a minyan to a resort sounds far-fetched (though I have been sent to partake in a rent-a-minyan arrangement where the local Chabad House got paid to ensure there was a minyan for a Kosher program at a resort). But asking about Kosher food is something you claim to be there to facilitate, and the way I see it many Chabad Houses in touristy places use this as a revenue source to support their outreach operations.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2021, 09:53:24 AM »
Isn't the job about being מרבה כבוד שמים ?

That isn’t classic Chabad terminology, but your point is noted.

It’s certainly possible (not necessarily this is the case here, idk) that the Rabbi was expressing burnout from Frum people “using” Chabad. Pretty sure I’ve posted it previously on DDF, but I was at a Chabad House Shabbos Kiddush where some Frum people came to participate, and while they were eating the food Chabad was serving them they were bad-mouthing Chabad. Such people are a minority and the extreme end of the continuum, but they do test the nerves of the local Chabad rabbi, who is only a human being.

I guess I can see both sides of the situation.
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Offline ponash123

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2021, 09:57:02 AM »
I'm not Chabad, so I really have no clue, I'd appreciate some enlightenment.
I travel a lot and most times end up contacting the local Chabad Rabbi. It's generally for Shabbos information (obviously I first search online for whatever info I can find).
I always give a donation and/or pay the requested fee as well.

I imagine that if I was male I would ask about minyan, though I don't think I even think there would be in far flung places.

Is that a nuisance? I was always under the impression that for these centers out in the middle of nowhere (where there are little to no Jews), this is what they do. Am I wrong?

Offline Lurker

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2021, 10:01:54 AM »
Kinda baffled at the view of "Chabad" as a corporate entity, almost like a Starbucks chain. These are individuals. They have individual jobs and goals and reasons for being where they are and doing what they do. The expectation of uniform perfection is one that we would not dare try to place on any other group of Jews who happen to follow the same mesorah. Are some shluchim rude? Sure. Do some display an unimaginable sense of bitul? Yes. They are individual people, with independent personalities.

FWIW, I read the tweets as being written with a tone of bemusement. The campus shliach who's lucky to get 40 people show up at his biggest events (and 85% of them are girls) is wondering what made anyone think he'd have daily minyanim. He's in the middle of nowhere and doesn't run a shul. He runs a student center. The shliach to a 238 sq. mi. island with a total population of 165k is bemused that someone who researched the place enough to want to go there thinks there may be restaurants there when he has to import shelf stable CY milk from France. There's a certain amount of common sense that's expected, and when the lack of it is so prevalent, it begs asking. You want to know why on Twitter? I agree, probably not the best place. But I also don't live in total isolation, where social media is a huge part of my interactions with like-minded people, so I can't exactly judge.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2021, 10:02:39 AM »
I'm not Chabad, so I really have no clue, I'd appreciate some enlightenment.
I travel a lot and most times end up contacting the local Chabad Rabbi. It's generally for Shabbos information (obviously I first search online for whatever info I can find).
I always give a donation and/or pay the requested fee as well.

I imagine that if I was male I would ask about minyan, though I don't think I even think there would be in far flung places.

Is that a nuisance? I was always under the impression that for these centers out in the middle of nowhere (where there are little to no Jews), this is what they do. Am I wrong?

I think it really varies from place to place, based on what’s realistically possible (local community/students/tourists/traveling businsssmen, etc.). Chabad’s website is a good place to start.

It sounds to me like you’re doing all the right things, and if the info isn’t on his website and you ask politely (“Any chance there’s a daily minyan anywhere nearby?”), and the Chabad rabbi gets upset by the question, that’s on him, not on you. Just my $0.02, would appreciate hearing rationale to the contrary.
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Offline dasmo801

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2021, 10:03:56 AM »
That isn’t classic Chabad terminology
My apologies, my background is Lakewood and Lakewood type yeshivos. But my assumption, and please correct if I'm wrong, is that the concept is a universal one even if the terminology is different.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #53 on: July 05, 2021, 10:08:12 AM »

Well every one of them has another issue, overall it's seems like they have an underlying issue with Frum Travelers, something that irks them, and each one finds one aspect to annoy him about them.
Yes the Frum Traveler is annoying, but thats what you need to expect as a chabad house, if you don't want them, hang up signs.

I've met Chabad Rabbis all over the world, some are downright rude at the first second, and they do not belong on shlichus, and some are welcoming and loving no matter how much you annoy them, it's a personality issue here. You have to make up your mind what you're here for, if it's not for thr kosher traveler, be clear about it.
FWIW, I read the tweets as being written with a tone of bemusement.
I think this is the essence of the problem here. Insiders read is in bemusement and outsiders read it as harsh critique.
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Offline dasmo801

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #54 on: July 05, 2021, 10:08:23 AM »
Kinda baffled at the view of "Chabad" as a corporate entity, almost like a Starbucks chain. These are individuals. They have individual jobs and goals and reasons for being where they are and doing what they do. The expectation of uniform perfection is one that we would not dare try to place on any other group of Jews who happen to follow the same mesorah. Are some shluchim rude? Sure. Do some display an unimaginable sense of bitul? Yes. They are individual people, with independent personalities.


I would have the same criticism of any OOT Rabbi who would respond similarly to a similar question, regardless of his affiliation. Heck, I think I would have the same criticism of any simple Jew who would respond that way to a question about a minyan.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #55 on: July 05, 2021, 10:09:03 AM »
I'm not Chabad, so I really have no clue, I'd appreciate some enlightenment.
I travel a lot and most times end up contacting the local Chabad Rabbi. It's generally for Shabbos information (obviously I first search online for whatever info I can find).
I always give a donation and/or pay the requested fee as well.

I imagine that if I was male I would ask about minyan, though I don't think I even think there would be in far flung places.

Is that a nuisance? I was always under the impression that for these centers out in the middle of nowhere (where there are little to no Jews), this is what they do. Am I wrong?

Absolutely not a nuisance in the slightest.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #56 on: July 05, 2021, 10:11:10 AM »
I'm not Chabad, so I really have no clue, I'd appreciate some enlightenment.
I travel a lot and most times end up contacting the local Chabad Rabbi. It's generally for Shabbos information (obviously I first search online for whatever info I can find).
I always give a donation and/or pay the requested fee as well.

I imagine that if I was male I would ask about minyan, though I don't think I even think there would be in far flung places.

Is that a nuisance? I was always under the impression that for these centers out in the middle of nowhere (where there are little to no Jews), this is what they do. Am I wrong?

Absolutely not a nuisance. The keys are 1) ask questions respectfully, with no expectations,  and 2) know where you're going and use common sense with your questions.

- If you need food, ask if there's a place to buy kosher milk/meat. If they don't have that, they probably don't have a restaurant.
- If they do have a restaurant that caters to tourists, chances are they have an online presence to let tourists know. If you can't find it online, bet on it not existing.
- Choose how you phrase your questions. Asking if there is a minyan is one thing. Asking what time mincha is on Tuesday, when the shliach has to sit on the phone each Friday begging people to come make a minyan on yomtov... it may elicit a laugh, or maybe it triggers something which really bothers that shliach.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #57 on: July 05, 2021, 10:17:59 AM »
I would have the same criticism of any OOT Rabbi who would respond similarly to a similar question, regardless of his affiliation. Heck, I think I would have the same criticism of any simple Jew who would respond that way to a question about a minyan.

With all due respect, you live in a different world. A minyan or fresh food are things that are so off the radar for some of these shluchim, that the constant expectations of random travellers is head-scratching to them.
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Offline Eliyohu

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Re: Please don't overwhelm our brothers
« Reply #59 on: July 05, 2021, 10:25:04 AM »
Kinda baffled at the view of "Chabad" as a corporate entity, almost like a Starbucks chain. These are individuals. They have individual jobs and goals and reasons for being where they are and doing what they do. The expectation of uniform perfection is one that we would not dare try to place on any other group of Jews who happen to follow the same mesorah. Are some shluchim rude? Sure. Do some display an unimaginable sense of bitul? Yes. They are individual people, with independent personalities.

FWIW, I read the tweets as being written with a tone of bemusement. The campus shliach who's lucky to get 40 people show up at his biggest events (and 85% of them are girls) is wondering what made anyone think he'd have daily minyanim. He's in the middle of nowhere and doesn't run a shul. He runs a student center. The shliach to a 238 sq. mi. island with a total population of 165k is bemused that someone who researched the place enough to want to go there thinks there may be restaurants there when he has to import shelf stable CY milk from France. There's a certain amount of common sense that's expected, and when the lack of it is so prevalent, it begs asking. You want to know why on Twitter? I agree, probably not the best place. But I also don't live in total isolation, where social media is a huge part of my interactions with like-minded people, so I can't exactly judge.

For you it's basic, but for outsider it's not. It took me a couple of trips to realize that each Chabad house I visit is self funded.
I've questioned the kids there how it works, who sends them, how they chose where to go. It is very foreign to those not from the circle.

Just to give you a different perspective...