Author Topic: Proper way to say “was Niftar” for Female  (Read 2589 times)

Offline avromie7

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Proper way to say “was Niftar” for Female
« on: July 15, 2021, 05:42:44 PM »
Always nice when people provide an update when tefillos are less needed. (In this case some are okay while her mother still seems to need tefillos.)

I actually heard recently (on the Meaningful People Podcast) that when R' Reuven Feinstein's wife was niftar after being hospitalized for a couple weeks, one of the first things that R' Reuven said was "please tell people that they can stop davening for her" as he didn't want to be matriach people by having them daven for her once she was niftar. Obviously an amazing level of consideration for others, that he was thinking about not wasting other people's time right after he lost his wife.



FTFY
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 04:47:39 PM by AsherO »
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2021, 07:24:32 PM »
FTFY
+1

"Nifteres" is a noun in female tense. The verb form is always "niftar."

Offline AsherO

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2021, 09:36:48 PM »
+1

"Nifteres" is a noun in female tense. The verb form is always "niftar."

Maybe not the correct place to debate this, but don’t you say אוכלת, יושבת, מדברת?
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2021, 10:26:40 PM »
+1

"Nifteres" is a noun in female tense. The verb form is always "niftar."

So that is part of regular english grammar 101? Or is it Yinglish grammar?
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Offline biobook

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2021, 10:53:38 PM »
Maybe not the correct place to debate this, but don’t you say אוכלת, יושבת, מדברת?
I would say:
Hebrew, present tense, she's in the process of dying,  היא גוססת
Hebrew, past tense, she's passed on, היא נפטרה
English, chareidi tense (?), she was niftar. 
Maybe niftar is an adjective here, like "she was honored", rather than a verb.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2021, 11:23:58 AM »
I would say:
Hebrew, present tense, she's in the process of dying,  היא גוססת
Hebrew, past tense, she's passed on, היא נפטרה
English, chareidi tense (?), she was niftar. 
Maybe niftar is an adjective here, like "she was honored", rather than a verb.

I know it’s used colloquially that way by Anglo Jews in spoken English, but should some be corrected when he says נפטרת?
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Offline biobook

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2021, 11:56:31 AM »
I know it’s used colloquially that way by Anglo Jews in spoken English, but should some be corrected when he says נפטרת?
No, like you say, נפטרת is a reasonable term, and completely understandable, so I wouldn't "correct" someone who uses it.  I put correct in quotes because language evolves over time, and what was correct in one time and location often sounds strange in another.  And I wrote "I would say" because I wasn't sure if my own speech is "correct" in any time or location.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2021, 12:03:57 PM »
No, like you say, נפטרת is a reasonable term, and completely understandable, so I wouldn't "correct" someone who uses it.  I put correct in quotes because language evolves over time, and what was correct in one time and location often sounds strange in another.  And I wrote "I would say" because I wasn't sure if my own speech is "correct" in any time or location.

All true 100%, but I was specifically asking about the following correction by @avromie7 concurred by @YitzyS


niftar
FTFY

+1

"Nifteres" is a noun in female tense. The verb form is always "niftar."
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Offline ckmk47

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2021, 12:24:42 PM »
No, like you say, נפטרת is a reasonable term, and completely understandable, so I wouldn't "correct" someone who uses it.  I put correct in quotes because language evolves over time, and what was correct in one time and location often sounds strange in another.  And I wrote "I would say" because I wasn't sure if my own speech is "correct" in any time or location.
נפטרת is a new term, but completely understandable, so I wouldn't "correct" someone who uses it. 
It only started being used recently.  People probably think it's more correct.
I agree language evolves over time, and what was correct in one time and location often sounds strange in another. 
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Offline biobook

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2021, 12:30:31 PM »
נפטרת is a new term, but completely understandable, so I wouldn't "correct" someone who uses it. 
It only started being used recently.  People probably think it's more correct.
I agree language evolves over time, and what was correct in one time and location often sounds strange in another.
Thank you!  Neither עִברִית nor Yinglish is my first language, so I was just going by ear.
Are you saying that נפטרת started being used recently by English speakers, or by native Hebrew speakers?

Offline avromie7

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2021, 12:35:59 PM »
Thank you!  Neither עִברִית nor Yinglish is my first language, so I was just going by ear.
Are you saying that נפטרת started being used recently by English speakers, or by native Hebrew speakers?
The proper way to use the word would be "the נפטרת was נפטר" in Hebrew I think it would be נפטרה הנפטרת
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline biobook

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2021, 12:59:50 PM »
The proper way to use the word would be "the נפטרת was נפטר" in Hebrew I think it would be נפטרה הנפטרת
I agree, but I think @ckmk47  was saying that she is hearing people use  נפטרת as a verb, as in "the נפטרת was נפטרת". 

Offline avromie7

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2021, 01:01:58 PM »
I agree, but I think @ckmk47  was saying that she is hearing people use  נפטרת as a verb, as in "the נפטרת was נפטרת".
People do say that, but I don't see how that can be correct.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2021, 03:01:18 PM »
Thank you!  Neither עִברִית nor Yinglish is my first language, so I was just going by ear.
Are you saying that נפטרת started being used recently by English speakers, or by native Hebrew speakers?
English speakers
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Offline yesitsme

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2021, 04:36:50 PM »
@mods this thread needs a split

Offline AsherO

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2021, 04:43:32 PM »
The proper way to use the word would be "the נפטרת was נפטר" in Hebrew I think it would be נפטרה הנפטרת

In Hebrew? Why not נפטרה? What דקדוק rule am I missing?
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Offline yungermanchik

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Re: Re: Tehillim for people with corona virus
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2021, 04:58:44 PM »
The proper way to use the word would be "the נפטרת was נפטר" in Hebrew I think it would be נפטרה הנפטרת
+1
the "was" replaces the "ה" as the helping verb, and since in English there is no differentiation between male and female, for this hybrid it stays the same.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Proper way to say “was Niftar” for Female
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2021, 05:01:58 PM »
+1
the "was" replaces the "ה" as the helping verb, and since in English there is no differentiation between male and female, for this hybrid it stays the same.

Then if anything there isn’t a proper way to say it, because the ה serves both the purpose of tense and gender.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Proper way to say “was Niftar” for Female
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2021, 05:04:23 PM »
The proper way to use the word would be "the נפטרת was נפטר" in Hebrew I think it would be נפטרה הנפטרת

But you were the OP who corrected nifteres to niftar, by your current rule nifteres shouldn’t have been corrected.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Proper way to say “was Niftar” for Female
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2021, 05:05:30 PM »
Then if anything there isn’t a proper way to say it, because the ה serves both the purpose of tense and gender.

Two different ה

I find it amazing how much back and forth can go on without answering the fundamental question I asked above. Without answering that question the discussion is pointless.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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