Author Topic: #DeathSantis  (Read 10416 times)

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2988
  • Total likes: 6914
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2021, 02:59:53 AM »
Why do people keep bringing up that NY was hit first as a defense? NY was hit at the same time as California, Washington, and others. NY killed nursing home residents, CA and WA didn't. The same day Cuomo enacted his nursing home policy a bunch of other states did the same, except they reversed it the next day when they realized how stupid it was.

NY has been proven to have attempted a death count cover up, FL has not. In fact, aside from the cover-up, NY likely under counted covid deaths in the first wave far more than any other state, including Florida.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/31/actually-data-dont-suggest-anything-unusual-about-floridas-excess-death-toll/
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline Jellybelly

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 936
  • Total likes: 729
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2021, 06:05:36 AM »
Why do people keep bringing up that NY was hit first as a defense? NY was hit at the same time as California, Washington, and others. NY killed nursing home residents, CA and WA didn't. The same day Cuomo enacted his nursing home policy a bunch of other states did the same, except they reversed it the next day when they realized how stupid it was.

NY has been proven to have attempted a death count cover up, FL has not. In fact, aside from the cover-up, NY likely under counted covid deaths in the first wave far more than any other state, including Florida.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/31/actually-data-dont-suggest-anything-unusual-about-floridas-excess-death-toll/
Hey hey hey,
Why we bringing facts into this discussion?

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 10185
  • Total likes: 3301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2021, 08:20:22 AM »
Why do people keep bringing up that NY was hit first as a defense? NY was hit at the same time as California, Washington, and others. NY killed nursing home residents, CA and WA didn't. The same day Cuomo enacted his nursing home policy a bunch of other states did the same, except they reversed it the next day when they realized how stupid it was.

NY has been proven to have attempted a death count cover up, FL has not. In fact, aside from the cover-up, NY likely under counted covid deaths in the first wave far more than any other state, including Florida.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/31/actually-data-dont-suggest-anything-unusual-about-floridas-excess-death-toll/
It is not a defense but a fact. The first wave was when we knew very little about the virus and were lied to on how deadly it was. It was also when didn't know how to treat it properly or have the means to.

From the beginning pretty much x have died from y infections. That has gone down since we understand the virus more, have better treatments and the vaccine.

Still for every person that gets infected some will die. The best defense is not getting infected.

Now with FL being the epicenter for infections what is being done to curb those infections to help save lives?

ETA: Wasn't the Jewish community in NY hit hard at the beginning because of lack of knowledge about this virus?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 08:26:48 AM by CountValentine »
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 10185
  • Total likes: 3301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2021, 08:48:42 AM »
Can we all agree FL currently has a major problem? If so the question is what are they doing to curb it which will result in less people dying?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/florida-reports-record-high-number-of-new-covid-19-cases-this-week/ar-AAN1PZ6?ocid=msedgntp
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 14030
  • Total likes: 1974
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2021, 09:51:21 AM »
Can we all agree FL currently has a major problem? If so the question is what are they doing to curb it which will result in less people dying?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/florida-reports-record-high-number-of-new-covid-19-cases-this-week/ar-AAN1PZ6?ocid=msedgntp
Stocking up on guns because they live in fear
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2988
  • Total likes: 6914
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2021, 10:27:26 AM »
It is not a defense but a fact. The first wave was when we knew very little about the virus and were lied to on how deadly it was. It was also when didn't know how to treat it properly or have the means to.

From the beginning pretty much x have died from y infections. That has gone down since we understand the virus more, have better treatments and the vaccine.

Still for every person that gets infected some will die. The best defense is not getting infected.

Now with FL being the epicenter for infections what is being done to curb those infections to help save lives?

ETA: Wasn't the Jewish community in NY hit hard at the beginning because of lack of knowledge about this virus?

NY got infections at the same time as other states. Why did the first wave go through NY like crazy but not those other states?
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 10185
  • Total likes: 3301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2021, 10:33:13 AM »
NY got infections at the same time as other states. Why did the first wave go through NY like crazy but not those other states?
NY was a hub for those coming in from Europe. At the time we touted closing China when the main cause was Europe.
Population density is a major factor also.

The Jewish community in NY was hit hard in the first wave. I can only guess it was be cause of their closeness to each other.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 13065
  • Total likes: 7717
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2021, 10:56:05 AM »
Why do people keep bringing up that NY was hit first as a defense? NY was hit at the same time as California, Washington, and others. NY killed nursing home residents, CA and WA didn't. The same day Cuomo enacted his nursing home policy a bunch of other states did the same, except they reversed it the next day when they realized how stupid it was.

NY has been proven to have attempted a death count cover up, FL has not. In fact, aside from the cover-up, NY likely under counted covid deaths in the first wave far more than any other state, including Florida.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/31/actually-data-dont-suggest-anything-unusual-about-floridas-excess-death-toll/
It is more than that. You can see Florida getting hot BEFORE New York right here. Why do they bring that up? I guess because their strategy worked better.



Don't worry about visiting Florida! People in Florida are immune to Coronavirus, as long as censorship is in place.
 
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article240390676.html

Feelings don't care about your facts

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2988
  • Total likes: 6914
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2021, 11:03:37 AM »
NY was a hub for those coming in from Europe. At the time we touted closing China when the main cause was Europe.
Population density is a major factor also.

The Jewish community in NY was hit hard in the first wave. I can only guess it was be cause of their closeness to each other.

NY is a hub, with people arriving there and then moving all over the country. The other places mentioned are also major international hubs.

What does this have to do with the Jewish community getting hit hard? There were other areas in Queens, Staten Island and the Bronx that were hit harder at first, and Orthodox communities in the rest of the country were not hit like NY
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 13065
  • Total likes: 7717
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2021, 11:09:15 AM »
NY is a hub, with people arriving there and then moving all over the country. The other places mentioned are also major international hubs.

What does this have to do with the Jewish community getting hit hard? There were other areas in Queens, Staten Island and the Bronx that were hit harder at first, and Orthodox communities in the rest of the country were not hit like NY
As is South Florida
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 10185
  • Total likes: 3301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2021, 11:10:23 AM »
NY is a hub, with people arriving there and then moving all over the country. The other places mentioned are also major international hubs.
I will let the travel experts chime in. My understanding is that NY is major point from those coming in from Europe where say Miami would not be.
What does this have to do with the Jewish community getting hit hard? 
Population density. As I have been told a thousand times you are one big family. Was easier for the virus to spread in that type of situation. I hope you are not taking this as if I was blaming someone.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 10185
  • Total likes: 3301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2021, 11:11:31 AM »
As is South Florida
So is Midway but not on the same scale as O'hare.  ;)
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 13065
  • Total likes: 7717
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2021, 11:15:24 AM »
So is Midway but not on the same scale as O'hare.  ;)
NY has many more than elsewhere who are there for a few hours and fly on Miami in the winter has packed hotels restaurants and attractions filled with people from all over the world. As I've shown above, Florida was hit before NY
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline biobook

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2020
  • Posts: 867
  • Total likes: 959
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2021, 12:19:55 PM »
Are the mortality rates worse than the US average?
This isn't the most relevant metric in this case.  Where lawmakers can most influence a pandemic is by slowing/preventing its spread, so it's the number of cases that you'd want to compare. 

NY got infections at the same time as other states. Why did the first wave go through NY like crazy but not those other states?
It is more than that. You can see Florida getting hot BEFORE New York right here. Why do they bring that up? I guess because their strategy worked better.
This is just not true.  I don't know what you're basing this on, and the article aygart posted is behind a paywall.  Maybe you were focused on Lubavitcher infections, and it's true that Rabbi Lipskar was one of the first in FL to be infected, in March.  But if you look at the total infections, the rate increased and decreased in NY long before the peak had even started in FL. 

The high rate of transmission in NY occurred early on because we knew so little about the virus, how to prevent transmission and how to treat it.  In FL, people were naturally in less indoor crowded conditions, and the virus cases were low and increasing only slowly in March and April.  By May, we knew much more about the virus from NY's experience, and so knew how to prevent the surge seen in NY by imposing a lockdown.  But instead of carefully re-opening, the governor lifted all restrictions in May, not because they were no longer necessary, not because doctors or public health officials or scientists recommended it, but because the college kids who bring in so much income to the tourist industry wanted to celebrate their missed spring break on the beaches of FL.  Wouldn't that be great for our economy!  For our personal freedom!  The surge of infections that followed tells only part of the story, since a large part of those infected returned to their home states, to raise the numbers and spread the infections there, so FL numbers undercount the transmissions that occurred here. 

New York's surge was unpredictable, Florida's surge could have been prevented.

A comparison of different states requires much more nuance than we have here, but at a minimum, if you want to compare how government policies affected the spread in NY and FL, you should start with sometime in the summer 2020, when knowledge of the virus was equal in the two states.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 60653
  • Total likes: 7969
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2021, 12:23:46 PM »
This isn't the most relevant metric in this case.  Where lawmakers can most influence a pandemic is by slowing/preventing its spread, so it's the number of cases that you'd want to compare.
The problem in comparing cases is that not all states had the same pressure of getting tested.
Mortality rate and/or excess mortality rate makes for a more consistent comparison.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline biobook

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2020
  • Posts: 867
  • Total likes: 959
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2021, 12:39:09 PM »
The problem in comparing cases is that not all states had the same pressure of getting tested.
Mortality rate and/or excess mortality rate makes for a more consistent comparison.
Yes, agree that different pressures to get tested, different demographics, different density of living conditions, different weather, and much more influence a comparison between states.
Mortality rate may make a consistent comparison, but that doesn't make it relevant to the question here, which is how government policy influences the pandemic.

Offline neveryou

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2019
  • Posts: 356
  • Total likes: 93
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: US
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2021, 12:39:54 PM »


This isn't the most relevant metric in this case.  Where lawmakers can most influence a pandemic is by slowing its spread, so it's the number of cases that you'd want to compare. 

FTFY

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 13065
  • Total likes: 7717
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2021, 12:40:59 PM »
This isn't the most relevant metric in this case.  Where lawmakers can most influence a pandemic is by slowing/preventing its spread, so it's the number of cases that you'd want to compare. 
This is just not true.  I don't know what you're basing this on, and the article aygart posted is behind a paywall.  Maybe you were focused on Lubavitcher infections, and it's true that Rabbi Lipskar was one of the first in FL to be infected, in March.  But if you look at the total infections, the rate increased and decreased in NY long before the peak had even started in FL. 

The high rate of transmission in NY occurred early on because we knew so little about the virus, how to prevent transmission and how to treat it.  In FL, people were naturally in less indoor crowded conditions, and the virus cases were low and increasing only slowly in March and April.  By May, we knew much more about the virus from NY's experience, and so knew how to prevent the surge seen in NY by imposing a lockdown.  But instead of carefully re-opening, the governor lifted all restrictions in May, not because they were no longer necessary, not because doctors or public health officials or scientists recommended it, but because the college kids who bring in so much income to the tourist industry wanted to celebrate their missed spring break on the beaches of FL.  Wouldn't that be great for our economy!  For our personal freedom!  The surge of infections that followed tells only part of the story, since a large part of those infected returned to their home states, to raise the numbers and spread the infections there, so FL numbers undercount the transmissions that occurred here. 

New York's surge was unpredictable, Florida's surge could have been prevented.

A comparison of different states requires much more nuance than we have here, but at a minimum, if you want to compare how government policies affected the spread in NY and FL, you should start with sometime in the summer 2020, when knowledge of the virus was equal in the two states.
To only start after NY's wave subsided? Really?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 14030
  • Total likes: 1974
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2021, 12:41:28 PM »
Yes, agree that different pressures to get tested, different demographics, different density of living conditions, different weather, and much more influence a comparison between states.
Mortality rate may make a consistent comparison, but that doesn't make it relevant to the question here, which is how government policy influences the pandemic.

It appears there might be a confusion here between CFR and population mortality rate.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Online zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1079
  • Total likes: 854
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2021, 01:30:19 PM »


TLDR - If you only look at the metrics by which Florida did worse than NY and judge based on that, then Desantis did a worse job than Coumo...