Author Topic: Ron DeSantis Master Thread  (Read 70213 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #340 on: September 02, 2021, 06:03:42 PM »
It doesn't show anything going down. THE LAST 2 WEEKS ARE INCOMPLETE DATA!!! Anyone looking at that data to figure out what's going on with the pandemic is an absolute moron.
You have to be kidding. The chart shows it going down drastically. 99/100 will see exactly that. That is why they did it.
We know the data lags. They are in a pandemic and changed the system for short term gains. What is so hard to understand.
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #341 on: September 02, 2021, 06:08:08 PM »
You have to be kidding. The chart shows it going down drastically. 99/100 will see exactly that. That is why they did it.
We know the data lags. They are in a pandemic and changed the system for short term gains. What is so hard to understand.

You may not recall, but we've had this conversation before, just in a slightly different way. When FL was showing day after day of 250 deaths, what exactly did that tell you?
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #342 on: September 02, 2021, 06:08:36 PM »
This is the chart @Lurker says "It doesn't show anything going down."



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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #343 on: September 02, 2021, 06:11:03 PM »
You may not recall, but we've had this conversation before, just in a slightly different way. When FL was showing day after day of 250 deaths, what exactly did that tell you?
No I don't recall but sounds something is messed up.

Look they change because short term the numbers look better for them. It is that simple.
Now you can talk about accuracy, lag and others things but 99/100 don't care and they know it.
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #344 on: September 02, 2021, 06:23:47 PM »
No I don't recall but sounds something is messed up.

Look they change because short term the numbers look better for them. It is that simple.
Now you can talk about accuracy, lag and others things but 99/100 don't care and they know it.

Again, if this is the most accurate way to report it, and practically it does not hurt our Covid response, then why are you hating on them for doing the right thing? Because their motivations weren't pure? You want them to keep on doing it wrong unless they have pure intentions?  ::)
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #345 on: September 02, 2021, 06:25:21 PM »
You may not recall, but we've had this conversation before, just in a slightly different way. When FL was showing day after day of 250 deaths, what exactly did that tell you?

Not sure if you missed this question...
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #346 on: September 02, 2021, 06:37:26 PM »
Again, if this is the most accurate way to report it, and practically it does not hurt our Covid response, then why are you hating on them for doing the right thing? Because their motivations weren't pure? You want them to keep on doing it wrong unless they have pure intentions?  ::)
Look at the chart. Does it look to you like one is more accurate? They are almost identical except short term. Both ways are accurate.

You ask over and over to show you how his way of reporting showed deaths currently going down. @biobook provided the proof.
This discussion is now over!!!  :)
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #347 on: September 02, 2021, 06:39:02 PM »
Not sure if you missed this question...
You missed the answer?
No I don't recall but sounds something is messed up.
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #348 on: September 02, 2021, 06:47:57 PM »
Look at the chart. Does it look to you like one is more accurate? They are almost identical except short term. Both ways are accurate.

You ask over and over to show you how his way of reporting showed deaths currently going down. @biobook provided the proof.
This discussion is now over!!!  :)

Both are accurate, but one looks more accurate to you, and the other shows deaths going down, but it's accurate... Aight, Annie. Hope that pretzel tastes as good as it sounds.

You missed the answer?

I asked what it told you, and you said, "I don't recall but something sounds messed up." How does that answer my question? Let me rephrase for you. In the past, before FL changed how they announced deaths, when you saw the new daily announcement, what did you take from that number? What did that number mean to you?
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #349 on: September 02, 2021, 06:57:51 PM »
Both are accurate, but one looks more accurate to you, and the other shows deaths going down, but it's accurate... Aight, Annie. Hope that pretzel tastes as good as it sounds.
You are so far gone you don't see it. You don't even see deaths going down in the chart.
Short term the new way is missing data as you have pointed out. That is why it shows less deaths.
My original points were the new way shows deaths currently going down. The chart proves this.
And the reason they did it because it makes them look better.
Both ways you end up with the same numbers eventually. I have said this over and over.
You keep digging new holes when the one you are in gets to deep.  :P
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #350 on: September 02, 2021, 06:59:42 PM »
I asked what it told you, and you said, "I don't recall but something sounds messed up." How does that answer my question? Let me rephrase for you. In the past, before FL changed how they announced deaths, when you saw the new daily announcement, what did you take from that number? What did that number mean to you?
Like 999/1000 I looked at the charts and the numbers reported. They showed if things were going up or down.
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #351 on: September 02, 2021, 07:02:04 PM »
You are so far gone you don't see it. You don't even see deaths going down in the chart.
Short term the new way is missing data as you have pointed out. That is why it shows less deaths.
My original points were the new way shows deaths currently going down. The chart proves this.
And the reason they did it because it makes them look better.
Both ways you end up with the same numbers eventually. I have said this over and over.
You keep digging new holes when the one you are in gets to deep.  :P

Deaths are going down, but the data is incomplete and deaths aren't going down, but someone drew a picture and I didn't read the instructions for what any of it means, and the black line is pointing down. You're right, #deathSantis is bad, and everything he ever does is bad, and

This discussion is now over!!!  :)
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #352 on: September 02, 2021, 07:05:23 PM »
Deaths are going down, but the data is incomplete and deaths aren't going down, but someone drew a picture and I didn't read the instructions for what any of it means, and the black line is pointing down. You're right, #deathSantis is bad, and everything he ever does is bad, and
Man are you a sore loser.  :)
sore loser: a person who becomes very upset or angry when he or she loses an internet discussion.
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #353 on: September 02, 2021, 07:11:37 PM »
It doesn't show anything going down. THE LAST 2 WEEKS ARE INCOMPLETE DATA!!! Anyone looking at that data to figure out what's going on with the pandemic is an absolute moron.
I plead guilty  :-[  At least in this sense, I'm an absolute moron. 

I've been checking the graphs for the past year, or reading media reports about the cases/hospitalizations/deaths, but not too critically.  In June, all the numbers were down, and I started to plan accordingly, but when August brought quickly increasing numbers, all plans were changed. 

I get your point, that if I just wait 2 weeks, I'll get a more accurate picture of what was happening in the pandemic 2 weeks ago.  I prefer a consistent measurement, even if slightly flawed, to a sudden change in measurement that complicates comparisons with what came before.

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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #354 on: September 02, 2021, 07:28:25 PM »
Maybe what it boils down to is this:  Neither curve gives a 100% accurate picture of what's happening today.  The old way (red) artificially inflates today's numbers, because it actually includes deaths that happened in the past. The new way (black) artificially decreases today's numbers, because it excludes deaths from today that will only be reported in the future.

The first way makes the situation seems worse than it actually is today, so people continue to behave cautiously (curtail social gatherings, use masks, etc).  We'll know in two weeks whether these safety measures were really needed or not.

The second way makes the situation seem better, but this can cause people to party like it's 2019 before the situation has really improved, and thereby contribute to the continued spread.

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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #355 on: September 02, 2021, 07:34:39 PM »
Maybe what it boils down to is this:  Neither curve gives a 100% accurate picture of what's happening today.  The old way (red) artificially inflates today's numbers, because it actually includes deaths that happened in the past. The new way (black) artificially decreases today's numbers, because it excludes deaths from today that will only be reported in the future.

The first way makes the situation seems worse than it actually is today, so people continue to behave cautiously (curtail social gatherings, use masks, etc).  We'll know in two weeks whether these safety measures were really needed or not.

The second way makes the situation seem better, but this can cause people to party like it's 2019 before the situation has really improved, and thereby contribute to the continued spread.
How about those infected? Is that lagging, as much?
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #356 on: September 02, 2021, 08:36:19 PM »
Look at the chart. Does it look to you like one is more accurate? They are almost identical except short term. Both ways are accurate.
Now that I looked at the chart, I would say the deaths being reported in any given week the old way were an accurate representation of how many people died the week or two previously.

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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #357 on: September 02, 2021, 08:51:03 PM »
I plead guilty  :-[  At least in this sense, I'm an absolute moron. 

I've been checking the graphs for the past year, or reading media reports about the cases/hospitalizations/deaths, but not too critically.  In June, all the numbers were down, and I started to plan accordingly, but when August brought quickly increasing numbers, all plans were changed. 

I get your point, that if I just wait 2 weeks, I'll get a more accurate picture of what was happening in the pandemic 2 weeks ago.  I prefer a consistent measurement, even if slightly flawed, to a sudden change in measurement that complicates comparisons with what came before.

With all due respect, and I believe you are due much respect, a) I don't think you understood my point, and b) I don't believe you. To be very clear, I don't think you're lying, but I think you're (unintentionally) misrepresenting how you look at and analyze the data. I'm going to address B first, and then try to explain my point.

B) If you follow the charts, you'll see that case counts are the first to rise, followed 3-7 days later by hospitalizations, followed 2-3 weeks later by deaths (the old way). You'll also notice that while case counts and hospitalizations drop fairly quickly after a peak, the downward slope for deaths is a little softer. Without getting into the whys, what ends up happening in reality is that deaths peak after waves have already ended, and stay relatively high when spread is at its lowest. I believe that when you look at those stats, you automatically explain away and discount the elevated death counts as a natural result of the previous wave.

As an example, take a look at FL's data from July through October of 2020. Cases peaked around the 3rd week of July, and deaths peaked around the 2nd/3rd week of August. Throughout the entire month of September, we averaged about 2500 cases per day, but we were still announcing 100 new Covid deaths per day. You can't tell me that you saw those numbers and thought we still had a serious Covid problem in this state at that time. However, the media and other people are looking at a chart that is screaming at them, "There are 100 people dying every day in Florida from Covid!" Which brings me to A.

A) My point isn't that if you wait 2 weeks, you'll have a more accurate picture of what was happening. My point is that for accurate data on what is happening in the pandemic, you need to look at testing and hospital data. Those stats tell you how it's going. Death stats tells you how it went. The announcements of the daily deaths never told you anything useful, other than how many of the people who were sick anytime in the last 1-6 months eventually died over the last few weeks. It didn't tell you when they got sick, how long they were sick for, or when they died, and it certainly didn't tell you the current state of Covid in FL.

(With regards to the chart that was posted from Salemi, I would take a look at another one of his charts he has labeled as "FL COVID-19 Resident Deaths by Date of Death." The chart is D5. If you hover over any point on that chart, you can see a distribution of each day's death by day of announcement. He used to have a better bar chart I believe I posted here in the past, but I can't find it right now.)
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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #358 on: September 02, 2021, 11:19:44 PM »
Like 999/1000 I looked at the charts and the numbers reported. They showed if things already went up or down.
FTFY
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline zh cohen

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Re: #DeathSantis
« Reply #359 on: September 03, 2021, 12:12:19 AM »
Speedo shows the speed you are going at that exact moment.

Speedo shows a lot more than that...