Moderna Vs Pfizer Protection Against Delta Variant

[Dan]

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-may-be-superior-pfizer-against-delta-breakthrough-odds-rise-with-time-2021-08-09/

"In a study of more than 50,000 patients in the Mayo Clinic Health System, researchers found the effectiveness of Moderna's vaccine against infection had dropped to 76% in July - when the Delta variant was predominant - from 86% in early 2021.
Over the same period, the effectiveness of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine had fallen to 42% from 76%, researchers said."

[S209]

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-may-be-superior-pfizer-against-delta-breakthrough-odds-rise-with-time-2021-08-09/

"In a study of more than 50,000 patients in the Mayo Clinic Health System, researchers found the effectiveness of Moderna's vaccine against infection had dropped to 76% in July - when the Delta variant was predominant - from 86% in early 2021.
Over the same period, the effectiveness of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine had fallen to 42% from 76%, researchers said."

Wow. Also, 86% and 76%? Huh? Weren’t they 94% and 95%?

[Dan]

Wow. Also, 86% and 76%? Huh? Weren’t they 94% and 95%?

That was pre-Delta.

Better question is why isn't Israel using Moderna for the booster.

[S209]

That was pre-Delta.

Better question is why isn't Israel using Moderna for the booster.

They’re saying Moderna and Pfizer were respectively only 86% and 76% pre-Delta.

Now at 76% and 42%.

[Dan]

They’re saying Moderna and Pfizer were respectively only 86% and 76% pre-Delta.

Correct, interesting.

[biobook]

They’re saying Moderna and Pfizer were respectively only 86% and 76% pre-Delta.

Now at 76% and 42%.

Maybe this is Mayo's own data, while the 94-95% were from the companies?

[Dan]

Maybe this is Mayo's own data, while the 94-95% were from the companies?

That's my assumption. Still interesting that such a variance exists and that we didn't hear about it.

[biobook]

They had been saying that even lower % was good enough for immunity, so maybe not important.

Second half also interesting - women who recovered from covid and women who'd been vaccinated both show normally functioning ovaries.

[PlatinumGuy]

Did this account for difference in elapsed time? Wasn't Pfizer approved and administered earlier?

Is there data about serious illness? In Israel it seems Pfizer is over 80% even with Delta.

[TimT]

Wasn't Pfizer approved and administered earlier?

IIRC it was rolled out a week apart.

[Sport]

That's my assumption. Still interesting that such a variance exists and that we didn't hear about it.

A few weeks ago when delta was raging through India and started to pick up in Israel, Moderna put out a statement that their vaccine was effective against the delta variant,  I didnt hear Pfizer make similar claims si I chose Moderna when i later got vaccinated.

[gozalim]

any data on JJ/Delta?

[Moshe123]

Hmmmm

[4yourinfo]

They’re saying Moderna and Pfizer were respectively only 86% and 76% pre-Delta.

Now at 76% and 42%.

Not necessarily pre delta - delta was detected late last year while the mayo data is only comparing from earlier this year to July. Wonder with pfizer being the more dominant vaccine is that why the virus mutated around it?

[nbfromnj]

any data on JJ/Delta?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/06/science/johnson-delta-vaccine-booster.html

sounds like it offers quite decent protection and doesn't need a booster

[ExGingi]

What about natural antibodies boosted by Moderna?

[biobook]

Wonder with pfizer being the more dominant vaccine is that why the virus mutated around it?

Delta variant emerged in India, where they were using Covishield, Covaxin and Russia's Sputnik V, not Pfizer. 

[biobook]

What about natural antibodies boosted by Moderna?

The article we talked about yesterday, about reinfections in Kentucky https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=126089.0  studied 50 people who had natural antibodies from a covid infection in 2020 then were vaccinated in 2021 with either J&J, Pfizer or Moderna, then were reinfected in May-June.  Their discussion didn't touch on the brands, so I would assume that it wasn't a large enough group to conclude that any one brand was a more effective booster.

[ExGingi]

The article we talked about yesterday, about reinfections in Kentucky https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=126089.0  studied 50 people who had natural antibodies from a covid infection in 2020 then were vaccinated in 2021 with either J&J, Pfizer or Moderna, then were reinfected in May-June.  Their discussion didn't touch on the brands, so I would assume that it wasn't a large enough group to conclude that any one brand was a more effective booster.

Not only does it not mention the brand, it has no indication of weather one or two doses of vaccine were given, or antibody levels prior to vaccine, and after vaccine.

[biobook]

Not only does it not mention the brand, it has no indication of weather one or two doses of vaccine were given, or antibody levels prior to vaccine, and after vaccine.

I think the press release was posted above, here's the article. 
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm
It mentions the brand in the methods, not the discussion.  Says complete vaccination meant two doses for P and M, one dose for J&J.  Partially vaccinated either had only one dose of a 2-dose vaccine, or came down with covid very soon after the second dose, before it could be considered effective.  Antibody levels were not measured.  They didn't interact with the people in this study, they analyzed cases from a database.