Boy was found BH 08 - 21

[Dan]

Odds of there being accountability without the administration feeling true financial pressure is slim. My son is same age as this boy. He has 27 boys in his bunk! (Different camp IINM).

If the administration has to deal with a lawsuit, they will force the head staff to implement rules that they'll never deal with it again. Otherwise, they can have protocols but rarely enforced. Most parents wouldnt sue, so the cycle continues

Only a matter of time then until a tragedy c"v.

[AsherO]

Odds of there being accountability without the administration feeling true financial pressure is slim. My son is same age as this boy. He has 27 boys in his bunk! (Different camp IINM).

If the administration has to deal with a lawsuit, they will force the head staff to implement rules that they'll never deal with it again. Otherwise, they can have protocols but rarely enforced. Most parents wouldnt sue, so the cycle continues

What people miss out on is that optimal/minimal-friction protocols make for a smoother camp experience overall, for the staff as well.

What's your kid's bunk staff arrangement like? In my children's camp this summer I wouldn't for a moment trust the teenage staff on their own, but every bunk has a counselor who is an experienced/intuitive educator and married with their own children, even without protocols that offers a modicum of safety.

[whacked1]

What people miss out on is that optimal/minimal-friction protocols make for a smoother camp experience overall, for the staff as well.

What's your kid's bunk staff arrangement like? In my children's camp this summer I wouldn't for a moment trust the teenage staff on their own, but every bunk has a counselor who is an experienced/intuitive educator and married with their own children, even without protocols that offers a modicum of safety.

Very hard for a day camp when they are going on trips every (or every other) day. when I was head staff in camp (it was overnight camp) this was our protocol for trips.

One person ran the trip (usually head counselor) > One head staff member per bus, equipped with rosters, first aid kit etc w/ a number count (every kid had a sticker with his name and number) > Three bunks per bus.
Counselor takes attendance of his bunk, okays it to head staff member, head staff members goes through a number count right before pulling out (every kid yells out his number in order, 1,2,3 etc) and then they leave. Its doable when this isnt daily and kids are older.

What's your kid's bunk staff arrangement like? In my children's camp this summer I wouldn't for a moment trust the teenage staff on their own, but every bunk has a counselor who is an experienced/intuitive educator and married with their own children, even without protocols that offers a modicum of safety.

One counselor and 4 JCs. Considering my son doesnt know any of their names, not sure how good the supervision is....

[AsherO]

Very hard for a day camp when they are going on trips every (or every other) day. when I was head staff in camp (it was overnight camp) this was our protocol for trips.

One person ran the trip (usually head counselor) > One head staff member per bus, equipped with rosters, first aid kit etc w/ a number count (every kid had a sticker with his name and number) > Three bunks per bus.
Counselor takes attendance of his bunk, okays it to head staff member, head staff members goes through a number count right before pulling out (every kid yells out his number in order, 1,2,3 etc) and then they leave. Its doable when this isnt daily and kids are older.

Sounds very reasonable, and likely doable at daycamp as well. Another good measure (on top of this) is to split the group (of 27 in your case) to 6-7 kids assigned to each JC, so even before roll call, a JC might notice that a kid wandered off, or the kid would know to ask that specific JC (even if he doesn't know his name) for permission/escort to go to the bathroom etc.

[Shmulie]

BH that he was found!

But there needs to be more accountability from camps.

I was in summer camp as a 3 year old in Boro Park when my parents noticed that out of the blue I was much more scared of things and needed to know exactly where we were going and if we knew how to get there.

My mother talked to the camp and they said, well we weren't going to mention it, but now that you asked, we did accidentally leave your son in the park and noticed it when we got back to camp without him...

I wonder how common this is?

I'm sorry that happened to you, it sounds incredibly traumatizing.

The group I was with had a couple counselors from the camp and from what I understand they realized he was missing before leaving the park. I think by doing a headcount by the busses.

[Euclid]

BH that he was found!

But there needs to be more accountability from camps.

I was in summer camp as a 3 year old in Boro Park when my parents noticed that out of the blue I was much more scared of things and needed to know exactly where we were going and if we knew how to get there.

My mother talked to the camp and they said, well we weren't going to mention it, but now that you asked, we did accidentally leave your son in the park and noticed it when we got back to camp without him...

I wonder how common this is?

Fascinating, considering your wanderlust.

[avromie7]

I'm sorry that happened to you, it sounds incredibly traumatizing.

The group I was with had a couple counselors from the camp and from what I understand they realized he was missing before leaving the park. I think by doing a headcount by the busses.

This makes sense. They realized he was missing, but there was no use in keeping the whole camp waiting while they searched for him.

[Shmulie]

This makes sense. They realized he was missing, but there was no use in keeping the whole camp waiting while they searched for him.

The counselors I spoke to said they left a couple counselors behind to look for him

[aygart]

The unfortunate reality is that in camps the foot soldiers are often teenagers who can't be realistically trusted to be on top of such a thing on their own. Their higher up is oftentimes a single head counselor responsible for dozens of kids (sometimes in more than one physical location at the same time), and the camp directors are delegating this responsibility to those beneath them.

If someone with experience and wisdom could devise the optimal/least-friction system for accounting for everyone in such situations (incl. dealing with medical emergencies ch"v, kid going to the bathroom, non-urgent injuries, etc) and offer it to camps free of charge, it could mitigate the potential for such mishaps.

Many day camps in Lakewood have married men as counselors and the teenaged bochurim are at most JCs.

[TimT]

https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2021/08/chilling-audio-man-who-provided-breakthrough-tip-which-helped-locate-6-year-old-yosef-shapiro-speaks.html

[WonderingYid]

BH that he was found!

But there needs to be more accountability from camps.

I was in summer camp as a 3 year old in Boro Park when my parents noticed that out of the blue I was much more scared of things and needed to know exactly where we were going and if we knew how to get there.

My mother talked to the camp and they said, well we weren't going to mention it, but now that you asked, we did accidentally leave your son in the park and noticed it when we got back to camp without him...

I wonder how common this is?

Don't hold your breath. The things I've seen...

[S209]

Fascinating, considering your wanderlust.

Well, he is extraordinarily certain of where he’s going and how he’s going to get there..