Author Topic: Is democracy the right form of government everywhere?  (Read 1392 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Is democracy the right form of government everywhere?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2022, 04:39:51 PM »
i don't really understand what you are saying. If a nation is not literate, then democracy is terrible because democracy can only work when the ones voting understand whats going on. its not condescending, its thte reality of the ones that came up with democracy. as for the uae (and most arab countries), their tribal ways also make it impossible to have a democracy as well.

i apologize for offending anyone but perhaps because i've lived in Israel for so long that i haven't realized that american society has decided to demonize common sense. 

So now let's look at recent history of Israeli elections and current polls and tell me please if Democracy can work in Israel, and if not, does it have anything to do with literacy, or anything else:


I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Is democracy the right form of government everywhere?
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2022, 05:50:10 AM »
So now let's look at recent history of Israeli elections and current polls and tell me please if Democracy can work in Israel, and if not, does it have anything to do with literacy, or anything else:



democracy is actually doing amazing in israel. the problem is that democracy, in essence is to quote churchill, "the worst form of government except all the others". the fact that there is equal rights (sorta), fair elections, and that the leaders cant do whatever they want is a proof that democracy is thriving in israel.

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Is democracy the right form of government everywhere?
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2022, 05:56:43 AM »

Lol, you don't answer a single thing and just call it common sense. Maybe, dear sir, your view point is the one demonizing common sense and your glasses are the tinted ones?


You totally missed mine - and apparently your own - points. Let's recap:

You started in the thread saying there are some places not "literate" enough for democracy. Then while pointing out the flagrant ignorance in a comment generalizing about an entire continent, I asked for the bar of literacy/education for people to be suited for democracy. You replied by saying that while Americans may not have any clue about any issues, they at least "know what's best for them". To which I then pointed out you are saying that Americans have that ability, while Africans don't. You gave no reason. The only reason is they are African. Arabs and Africans simply can't figure out what's best for them.

But you're not saying anything racist, it's just common sense, right?

So one more time: Please explain what bar of literacy/education all non Arabs and Africans have that they don't?


Please reread your comment and note that you say:

"do you deny that despite many of the african nations calling themselves democratic that they are anything but?"

In other words, to prove that the Africans are too stupid for democracy, you're pointing to dictatorships that are merely pretending to be democratic. Well maybe, Sherlock, the issue is not Africans being too idiotic to know what's best for them but the dictators undermining the democracy?

Are Russians too illiterate to have a democracy because their president jails or even murders reporters and political opponents?

i didnt start this thread and im not quite sure if you know your history. many arab and african states started off as democratic by their "mother countires" after ww2. they had a round or two of fair elections and then everything went haywire. what went haywire? you say its because of the dictatorships. but the USA also had a dictatorship, called George the third, and they fought against it. Mainly through the press and appealing to the minds of the people. by explaining to all the rights of man and the need for equality they built up for themselves a solid base of people who were willing to fight for it and eventually won independence. I have nothing against any nation or race. All can have a fair government. But they have to be holding there. And most arab and african states just dont have the base for proper democracy. This is not racism. Its the facts of government and how they evolved. Look up the facts and get back to me when you have a basic education on the matter.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Is democracy the right form of government everywhere?
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2022, 07:15:28 AM »
i didnt start this thread and im not quite sure if you know your history. many arab and african states started off as democratic by their "mother countires" after ww2. they had a round or two of fair elections and then everything went haywire. what went haywire? you say its because of the dictatorships. but the USA also had a dictatorship, called George the third, and they fought against it. Mainly through the press and appealing to the minds of the people. by explaining to all the rights of man and the need for equality they built up for themselves a solid base of people who were willing to fight for it and eventually won independence. I have nothing against any nation or race. All can have a fair government. But they have to be holding there. And most arab and african states just dont have the base for proper democracy. This is not racism. Its the facts of government and how they evolved. Look up the facts and get back to me when you have a basic education on the matter.

Please address Y57ís questions before attempting to insult (or making assumptions about) his education. And whatís up with conflating a monarchy with a dictatorship?

Offline yerushabubby

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Re: Is democracy the right form of government everywhere?
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2022, 07:26:18 AM »
Many of the issues with democracy in countries that have been dictatorships for generations has to do with culture.  The people who led the American revolution , as well as most of those residing in America at the time, had fled persecution in Europe (or their ancestors had), showing an independent nature not found everywhere. 

This independent nature seems to be what makes democracy work.  In places where subservience is a part of the culture, it is extremely easy for unscrupulous, or occasionally even well meaning people to take advantage and turn a democracy into a dictatorship.

Another issue that makes democratic elections more difficult in many African, Arab, and other countries, is the tribal culture.  Getting people out to vote freely is not easy when many of them have limited access to information, etc.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Is democracy the right form of government everywhere?
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2022, 07:57:17 AM »
i didnt start this thread and im not quite sure if you know your history. many arab and african states started off as democratic by their "mother countires" after ww2. they had a round or two of fair elections and then everything went haywire. what went haywire? you say its because of the dictatorships. but the USA also had a dictatorship, called George the third, and they fought against it. Mainly through the press and appealing to the minds of the people. by explaining to all the rights of man and the need for equality they built up for themselves a solid base of people who were willing to fight for it and eventually won independence. I have nothing against any nation or race. All can have a fair government. But they have to be holding there. And most arab and african states just dont have the base for proper democracy. This is not racism. Its the facts of government and how they evolved. Look up the facts and get back to me when you have a basic education on the matter.

I'm by no means a history buff, but I do know modern history of governance doesn't start at WWII. You still haven't addressed the basic question. You repeat ad nauseum that Africans just "aren't holding by it" without explaining why.
You say things like

"Mainly through the press and appealing to the minds of the people. by explaining to all the rights of man and the need for equality"

Without addressing that those rights and that equality did not apply to black people or women.

The place where I was born, South Africa - was the Apartheid  regime a democracy, albeit a racist one? And what of the New South African government, is that a democracy? How is it working (the former president is sitting in jail after being forced to resign. Sounds almost like Israel) if the people aren't literate enough to handle democracy?

What do virtually all the relatively new democracies in Africa have in common? Why are they new? Why weren't they formed at the same time as Western democracies?

Again, I'm no history buff, but I'm sure you can come up with explanations and "facts" that don't boil down to people with brown skin being unable to "know what's best for them".

Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline gozalim

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Re: Is democracy the right form of government everywhere?
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2022, 11:45:01 AM »
There are quotes from the founding fathers about democracy only being possible with an educated electorate. That said, I don't think that issue applies to the examples given, especially in our information age.

If anything it is more likely that cultures and attitudes feed different forms of government.
Trump and Obama are both very much products of the current American landscape from which they emerged