Author Topic: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal  (Read 109113 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #220 on: August 17, 2021, 08:36:55 AM »
Just because you (and I) are against the pullout doesn't mean that once it is being done it makes no difference how poorly it is managed.
Was it poorly managed, yes. Was this on Biden, yes. Would the result have been different, no.
My issue is the massive hypocrisy with so many members.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #221 on: August 17, 2021, 08:38:30 AM »
I am neither for or against pulling out but hard to ignore a botched pullout. Do whatever you gonna do but at least do it right. The results were nothing close to what was promised.
Promised? I agree with you.
The results were predicted and the info to back this up will and has been coming out.
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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #222 on: August 17, 2021, 08:39:13 AM »
Was it poorly managed, yes. Was this on Biden, yes. Would the result have been different, no.
My issue is the massive hypocrisy with so many members.
I don't see anyone arguing that the pullout was a good or bad idea other than the pro-biden camp arguing that it was good.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #223 on: August 17, 2021, 08:40:07 AM »
I am neither for or against pulling out but hard to ignore a botched pullout. Do whatever you gonna do but at least do it right. The results were nothing close to what was promised.
+1
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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #224 on: August 17, 2021, 08:41:31 AM »
Would the result have been different, no.
Utter and complete nonsense.

We could have evacuated vulnerable Afghans and Americans before the drawdown.
We could have kept Bagram Air Base for secure evacuations instead of relying on a hard to defend commercial airport.
We could have provided air support against Taliban advances for some period of time to show that we weren't just retreating and running for our lives.
Among so many other failures here.
Biden's rushed timetable and deadline vs leaving after figuring things out and winding down is the problem here.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #225 on: August 17, 2021, 08:44:27 AM »
I don't see anyone arguing that the pullout was a good or bad idea other than the pro-biden camp arguing that it was good.
This isn't only about what happened today. Today is the end result of wanting a pull out.
This is what "America First" is about.
This is on Biden but this fake outrage that it happened to fast is laughable.
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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #226 on: August 17, 2021, 08:48:45 AM »
Biden's rushed timetable and deadline vs leaving after figuring things out and winding down is the problem here.
Biden decided on a 100% pull out. He decided we were going to have no part in this anymore. This is the result.
Yes you can wind down over months with more Americans killed but he decided against that.
Freedom comes with a price. I hope I am wrong but this decision will cost more American lives in the long run.
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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #227 on: August 17, 2021, 08:50:22 AM »
CNN: Desperate scenes lay bare an Afghan defeat that Biden cannot deny.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/politics/joe-biden-afghanistan-defeat/index.html
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #228 on: August 17, 2021, 08:54:01 AM »
This isn't only about what happened today. Today is the end result of wanting a pull out.
This is what "America First" is about.
This is on Biden but this fake outrage that it happened to fast is laughable.

This has nothing to do with America First. When your own troops and citizens need to escape because you botched the pull out, that has nothing to do with prioritizing Americans. And prioritizing Americans doesn’t mean ignoring allies and those who’ve helped us to the best of your ability.

As to your opinion that there was no better way to execute the pullout, it seems like you are alone in that belief. Do you see any military experts agreeing with this?
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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #229 on: August 17, 2021, 09:00:25 AM »
This isn't only about what happened today. Today is the end result of wanting a pull out.
This is what "America First" is about.
This is on Biden but this fake outrage that it happened to fast is laughable.
Wrong. This outrage is not over the pull out and its repercussions.
The outrage is all about what happened today.
The outrage is over the humiliation of our great country.
The outrage is over the humiliation of our great service men and women.

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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #230 on: August 17, 2021, 09:01:44 AM »
You didn't think the Taliban would have total control of the country once we pulled out?

Joe Biden apparently didn't think so a month ago when he was asked this very question.

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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #231 on: August 17, 2021, 09:02:25 AM »
We could have kept Bagram Air Base for secure evacuations instead of relying on a hard to defend commercial airport.

There is at least 1 CIA airfield that was still in use this week.

The intel that the Taliban wouldn't attack the airport was accurate. The crowds may appear humiliating on TV but were never a threat.

Not a single American was hurt in this exit. We can't take care of every Afghan who ever helped us, their country is responsible for them.

Any other strategy would've lowered the odds of the Afghan army beating the Taliban, though there is legitimate question of what those odds were in the first place.


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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #232 on: August 17, 2021, 09:06:09 AM »
There is at least 1 CIA airfield that was still in use this week.

The intel that the Taliban wouldn't attack the airport was accurate. The crowds may appear humiliating on TV but were never a threat.

Not a single American was hurt in this exit. We can't take care of every Afghan who ever helped us, their country is responsible for them.

Any other strategy would've lowered the odds of the Afghan army beating the Taliban, though there is legitimate question of what those odds were in the first place.
The airport scenes with the US air force planes were one of the primary sources of embarrassment so far.
That does not happen at Bagram. That happens at an indefensible commercial airport.

Plenty of reports show Biden was told by intelligence that the Taliban would take over in a matter of days, he just chose to ignore that.

Had the US maintained air control while the Afghans have boots on the ground, they certainly could have held things off for quite a long time. Giving everything over at one shot before everyone got out was a recipe for failure.
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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #233 on: August 17, 2021, 09:10:38 AM »
There is at least 1 CIA airfield that was still in use this week.

The intel that the Taliban wouldn't attack the airport was accurate. The crowds may appear humiliating on TV but were never a threat.

Not a single American was hurt in this exit. We can't take care of every Afghan who ever helped us, their country is responsible for them.

Any other strategy would've lowered the odds of the Afghan army beating the Taliban, though there is legitimate question of what those odds were in the first place.
Saying there was no other viable option certainly seems false based on the anger of the intelligence community

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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #234 on: August 17, 2021, 09:14:59 AM »
Any other strategy would've lowered the odds of the Afghan army beating the Taliban, though there is legitimate question of what those odds were in the first place.

If the odds of an Afghan victory were anything significant I doubt there would be a pullout in the first place. My understanding of the pullout reasoning is even if we stayed another 20 years they still wouldn’t be able to transition to the Afghan army, so why stay any longer.
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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #235 on: August 17, 2021, 09:15:40 AM »
Biden's rushed timetable and deadline vs leaving after figuring things out and winding down is the problem here.
That's where the problem/misunderstanding lies. When you start figuring things out you realize that there is simply no good solution, so you bail and run (not advocating that, but that has been done in Lebanon by Barak, in Gaza by Sharon, and now in Afghanistan by Biden (though initially started by Trump - that was mostly words, I am not sure he would have executed once you try to figure things out, just like Syria)).
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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #236 on: August 17, 2021, 09:19:24 AM »
That's where the problem/misunderstanding lies. When you start figuring things out you realize that there is simply no good solution, so you bail and run (not advocating that, but that has been done in Lebanon by Barak, in Gaza by Sharon, and now in Afghanistan by Biden (though initially started by Trump - that was mostly words, I am not sure he would have executed once you try to figure things out, just like Syria)).

Did Sharon leave the settlers and collaborators behind in Gaza before pulling out? Must have missed that.
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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #237 on: August 17, 2021, 09:24:17 AM »
Wrong. This outrage is not over the pull out and its repercussions.
The outrage is all about what happened today.
The outrage is over the humiliation of our great country.
The outrage is over the humiliation of our great service men and women.
Where was the outrage when the deal was made with the Taliban? When we turned our backs on those that fought and dies along Americans? Selectable outrage is laughable.
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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #238 on: August 17, 2021, 09:26:19 AM »
There is at least 1 CIA airfield that was still in use this week.
Do you consider that equal to the primary airbase in the country?
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Re: Afghanistan Falls To The Taliban After US Withdrawal
« Reply #239 on: August 17, 2021, 09:26:36 AM »
If the odds of an Afghan victory were anything significant I doubt there would be a pullout in the first place. My understanding of the pullout reasoning is even if we stayed another 20 years they still wouldn’t be able to transition to the Afghan army, so why stay any longer.
Freedom has a price. Are we better off not being there at all? Does Al Qaeda make a strong comeback now?
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