Author Topic: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread  (Read 502 times)

Online TimT

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Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« on: September 09, 2021, 11:52:32 PM »
R' Yisroel Shmuel Engel a"h (had bad reaction to first vaccine dose, went into coma after 2nd dose).
What kind of reaction ? Did he have prior medical condition ?

Offline alexk.

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2021, 12:00:39 AM »
BDE.

Must be a mistake. We are not allowed to believe that anyone can have a negative reaction to the vaccine. I saw a bunch of videos of Rabbis, doctors and now the President - that told me itís not possible. 🙄


Offline yuneeq

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2021, 12:06:39 AM »
BDE.

Must be a mistake. We are not allowed to believe that anyone can have a negative reaction to the vaccine. I saw a bunch of videos of Rabbis, doctors and now the President - that told me itís not possible. 🙄

Wrong thread for this crap

Offline alexk.

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2021, 12:26:00 AM »
You can feel that way... and I understand it.

However, go up thread, and when someone passed because they didnít vaccinate, it was open for discussions in the thread.

So it seems to be an open thread for that...

Online Euclid

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2021, 12:27:29 AM »
You can feel that way... and I understand it.

However, go up thread, and when someone passed because they didnít vaccinate, it was open for discussions in the thread.

So it seems to be an open thread for that...
Yup definitely the same thing.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2021, 12:32:28 AM »
You can feel that way... and I understand it.

However, go up thread, and when someone passed because they didnít vaccinate, it was open for discussions in the thread.

So it seems to be an open thread for that...
The conversation may be important, but it belongs in a different thread. IIRC, the point was made upthread also, by the conversation you referenced. I think there were even breakoff threads.

Bottom line is that this thread is for loftier, pointed posts.
Monkeys don't fly unless you put them on airplanes

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2021, 01:17:00 AM »
You can feel that way... and I understand it.

However, go up thread, and when someone passed because they didnít vaccinate, it was open for discussions in the thread.

So it seems to be an open thread for that...

Donít try to patronize me, and no one cares for your fake news BS. Spew it somewhere else.
Vaccine adverse reaction risks were acknowledged from the very first trials.

Online CountValentine

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2021, 06:47:03 AM »
... and I understand it.
Then show some common decency.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline aygart

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2021, 08:42:42 AM »
I saw a bunch of videos of Rabbis, doctors and now the President - that told me itís not possible. 🙄
לא היו דברים מעולם
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online ExGingi

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2021, 09:57:28 AM »
He was my great uncle. This is the first I'm hearing that it was related to the vaccine. He went into a coma because he coded during a CT scan and was likely without oxygen for some minutes.

I just repeated what I heard from his son-in-law. I might have also heard something similar from his son, I am not sure.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline alexk.

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2021, 12:18:48 PM »
Then show some common decency.

What I am writing below should not be connected to this specific person - as his tragedy does not need to be brought into this discussion.

 However:

Is it not offensive to ask if someone who passed was vaccinated? So that people can feel good to find out that they weren't and then think (sometimes out loud) that they maybe deserved to die because they were thrown a lifeline and didn't take it? Because I have seen a lot of that - wither implied or more directly. Do they follow up with a question of " Did they have underlying health issues?" Not anymore. If you didn't take the vax, it is reason enough. 

If they took the Vax and had complications and died - we have to justify it. "Did they have underlying health issues? They must have. Even if they didn't, they obviously had and didn't know about it." Lets me sleep better at night. Or I can just say " they are a statistic - but there is no real concern".

I understand that someone dying from the Vax is very small in comparison to those who have died from Covid and not vaxxed. However, as is evident from my positions, I don't believe the vax is for everyone ( at least not yet) - especially those that are extremely low risk of severe illness or death. And to brush the possibility of a long term or severe side effect under the rug is not being intellectually honest. It has not been around long enough to know. Nothing anyone can say can disprove that fact.

I had someone who frequented my office from the local neighborhood - in his 60's or early 70's - and died from a heart attack 2 days after taking his second vax. Is it coincidence? Maybe. Could it have been from the Vax? I think it is a good possibility. We will never know if we won't even acknowledge the possibility.


Of course you will not see a headline stating " man dies from vaccine" - but maybe, just maybe, there is some justification for someone who didn't take the vax. And I can RESPECT that.

So maybe this is the wrong thread. A death from the Vax should have its own thread. A death from Vax should not be put in the Covid related deaths. However, you won't find any links to news articles of people who died or had major side effects from the vax. Only what you know from your circles.

I understand that the popular opinion on this forum is to vaccinate across the board. We all want life to get back to normal. Just acknowledge there is another side to this, it is not that simple and respect it.

We should all be very scared of this Mandate. You can justify it all you want - but it is a slippery slope.

Tomorrow they can come after you for simpler matters like Shechitah or Milah. 

So let the Mods move it wherever they feel the conversation is appropriate. 

I may not comment a lot and am just a more causal reader here, but "common decency" is very subjective in these forums.

Offline aygart

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2021, 12:25:00 PM »
However, you won't find any links to news articles of people who died or had major side effects from the vax. Only what you know from your circles.

שקר וכזב

The J&J vaccine was paused over news articles reporting side effects
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2021, 12:29:56 PM »

Of course you will not see a headline stating " man dies from vaccine" - but maybe, just maybe, there is some justification for someone who didn't take the vax. And I can RESPECT that.


This is just wrong. The media (including the NYT, WP, and CNN) reported even minor side effects on their front pages.
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Offline alexk.

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2021, 12:48:41 PM »
This is just wrong. The media (including the NYT, WP, and CNN) reported even minor side effects on their front pages.

Please link an article that directly links a vax to a death - not a statistic.

And of course there would have to be some human element to the story of who the person was, and had their whole life ahead of them, and now they are gone because of it.

And as is usual for these forums, we can nitpick the details, and ignore the overall message. 

Offline aygart

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2021, 01:00:53 PM »
Please link an article that directly links a vax to a death - not a statistic.

And of course there would have to be some human element to the story of who the person was, and had their whole life ahead of them, and now they are gone because of it.

And as is usual for these forums, we can nitpick the details, and ignore the overall message. 
Other option is to show that the entire message is a bunch of bunk.
Considering the rarity, it is possible that it is just not there to report in meaningful quantities, but either way here are some links from withion the last few weeks.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html



Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 375 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 7, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,439 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if itís unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse eventóblood clots with low plateletsówhich has caused deaths pdf icon[1.4 MB, 40 pages].

https://www.ideastream.org/news/has-anyone-died-after-receiving-the-covid-19-vaccine

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/new-zealand-reports-death-woman-after-pfizer-covid-vaccine-2021-08-30/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58380867
https://www.theonion.com/horrified-anti-vaxxer-discovers-every-american-who-got-1847644353
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/vijayawada/andhra-pradesh-man-dies-after-taking-covid-vaccine-in-krishna-district/articleshow/85855058.cms
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2021, 01:02:57 PM »
Please link an article that directly links a vax to a death - not a statistic.

And of course there would have to be some human element to the story of who the person was, and had their whole life ahead of them, and now they are gone because of it.

And as is usual for these forums, we can nitpick the details, and ignore the overall message.

How about you link to a death that was caused by the vax?
Like I said, even minor side effects were reported on the front page and blown out of proportion when the vaccines were rolled out. You surely remember the stories of people fainting in the observation area and worse. The reason deaths were not reported was because there was no evidence of them being linked, not because they were being hidden (ETA: if indeed they were not reported). The stories from family members I have heard (I know of 2) were both people who had been severely ill for months before taking the vaccine.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2021, 01:05:50 PM »
ideastream.org
bbc.com/
reuters.com
bbc.com
theonion.com
timesofindia.indiatimes.com

one of these is not like the others
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Offline aygart

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2021, 01:09:51 PM »
For the record, HHS maintains a website called VAERS https://vaers.hhs.gov/index.html where anyone, including patients and parents, can self report adverse effects. As of today there are 7414 deaths reported.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2021, 01:11:09 PM »
one of these is not like the others
Caught me.
But it belongs in the conversation.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online yesitsme

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Re: Deaths after vaccination discussion thread
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2021, 01:11:15 PM »
For the record, HHS maintains a website called VAERS https://vaers.hhs.gov/index.html where anyone, including patients and parents, can self report adverse effects. As of today there are 7414 deaths reported.
From covid vaccine?
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