Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?

[as2]

What crimes are you talking about? And what crimes were admitted to on the stand?

How can he be charged with something he mentioned today? He might be charged after this.

A lot of what Gaige admitted to was already known. In multiple statements he gave to police, he said he had dropped his gun, yet every video he's in, clearly shows otherwise. They knew that almost immediately, but never charged him with falsifying a statement. He was illegally carrying concealed, which was also known, but wasn't charged for. He never told police he had, or pointed a gun in respect to his encounter with Rittenhouse. He falsified several parts of his statement, but nobody seemed to care. Additionally, the police had a search warrent for his phone, but decided not to execute it on the advisement of his attorneys. There were a few other things I don't recall off hand, but I will try to track down.

[zh cohen]

Additionally, the police had a search warrent for his phone, but decided not to execute it on the advisement of his attorneys.

Wasn't it the DA that told the police not to take Gaige's phone? Was that ever explained?

[CountValentine]

A lot of what Gaige admitted to was already known. In multiple statements he gave to police, he said he had dropped his gun, yet every video he's in, clearly shows otherwise. They knew that almost immediately, but never charged him with falsifying a statement. He was illegally carrying concealed, which was also known, but wasn't charged for. He never told police he had, or pointed a gun in respect to his encounter with Rittenhouse. He falsified several parts of his statement, but nobody seemed to care. Additionally, the police had a search warrent for his phone, but decided not to execute it on the advisement of his attorneys. There were a few other things I don't recall off hand, but I will try to track down.

Speaking on him pointing the gun which everyone seems to think is a bombshell did Kyle ever mentioned to anyone that he ever seen a gun on anyone he shot? IIRC it was a skateboard and a bat he mentioned.

[Ergel]

Has the errant gunshot before Kyle shot been discussed. Do they know who the guy was who shot into the air and why?

[CountValentine]

Wasn't it the DA that told the police not to take Gaige's phone? Was that ever explained?

They normally don't go after the victims.

[zh cohen]

They normally don't go after the victims.

Even when they have video of the incident on their phone?

Also, this would mean that even before investigating they had decided that he was a victim, and not the aggressor. How did they know that?

[CountValentine]

Also, this would mean that even before investigating they had decided that he was a victim, and not the aggressor. How did they know that?

Part of his arm blown off might be a clue. 

[as2]

Speaking on him pointing the gun which everyone seems to think is a bombshell did Kyle ever mentioned to anyone that he ever seen a gun on anyone he shot? IIRC it was a skateboard and a bat he mentioned.

I don't know what Kyle said, I don't believe he commented on it publicly. Gaige himself specifically didn't mention it. Keep in mind, we're dealing with someone who is far from a good guy to begin with, so the concept of him not being straight isn't foreign.

They normally don't go after the victims.

I'd beg to differ, but who was anyone to decide he was a victim? People get shot doing criminal activity all the time. I understand that they didn't charge him initially, as he had falsified the statement to look better, but once they realized this wasn't a cut and dry case, and they had evidence that he had committed crimes, why wouldn't they charge him?

[as2]

Part of his arm blown off might be a clue. 

Wow. I never would've expected this from someone like you.

[CountValentine]

I don't know what Kyle said, I don't believe he commented on it publicly. Gaige himself specifically didn't mention it. Keep in mind, we're dealing with someone who is far from a good guy to begin with, so the concept of him not being straight isn't foreign.

Not sure why you keep bringing up he was not a good good. How does that effect the facts of the case?

Lets remember Kyle had someone buy a gun for him illegally. That is not something a good guy does.

Your posts all seem one-sided and I am getting the feeling you are past being objective.

[CountValentine]

Wow. I never would've expected this from someone like you.

Did you miss the smiley face?
What do you except from me? That this is what happens you when give every idiot a gun? Let every wannabe carry?
I have said this for many years and the only response was 2A.

[as2]

Not sure why you keep bringing up he was not a good good. How does that effect the facts of the case?

Lets remember Kyle had someone buy a gun for him illegally. That is not something a good guy does.

Your posts all seem one-sided and I am getting the feeling you are past being objective.

I apologize for reiterating that the individual lying, has a history of not being a good person. I think character is known as a very important part of most cases. Yes, I am in no way declaring Rittenhouse a saint, but everything he has claimed seems to be holding up as truth. Additionally, I remember how my thought process and judgement worked as a 17 year old relative to how it does now, and while not justifying anything, it definitely makes it more understandable.

[CountValentine]

I apologize for reiterating that the individual lying, has a history of not being a good person. I think character is known as a very important part of most cases. Yes, I am in no way declaring Rittenhouse a saint, but everything he has claimed seems to be holding up as truth. Additionally, I remember how my thought process and judgement worked as a 17 year old relative to how it does now, and while not justifying anything, it definitely makes it more understandable.

Are you claiming he lied on the stand?

[as2]

Did you miss the smiley face?
What do you except from me? That this is what happens you when give every idiot a gun? Let every wannabe carry?
I have said this for many years and the only response was 2A.

So this is all about "letting every idiot have a gun? I think the guns were probably some of the only things that WERE used somewhat properly that night. I think this is what happens when you let lawlessness rain on the street, and pretend it's a protest. Additionally, another argument for another time, but just because something doesn't seem like a good idea, or is actually a bad idea, doesn't always mean we can remove it's status as a liberty we are granted. Obviously the specifics of that need to be specified, but the point stands.

[as2]

Are you claiming he lied on the stand?

Either there, or in his statement to police. They contradict each other, so he lied in one of them.

[CountValentine]

I think the guns were probably some of the only things that WERE used somewhat properly that night.

Maybe ask others that were there with guns. There is a reason Kyle was the only one that killed anyone that night.
It was a 17 year old idiot with a gun that panicked. As a result two people are dead but who cares as they were bad people.

[CountValentine]

Either there, or in his statement to police. They contradict each other, so he lied in one of them.

Contradictions and or admissions are not always lies. What matters is what he said on the stand and AFAIK that is accurate.

If Kyle takes the stand we will be saying the same thing, no? He claims in public statements he was asked by the owners to protect the car lot. We now know that was a lie. How about jumping on him for that?

[CountValentine]

I'd beg to differ, but who was anyone to decide he was a victim? People get shot doing criminal activity all the time.

Yes people get shot doing criminal activity. AFAIK there was no mention of the guy Kyle blew off part of his arm was involved in criminal activity that night.

You sure it is me making all these assumptions? 

[CountValentine]

I have to ask where are you getting all this information that the people shot were bad people? From some rightwing nutcase gun blogs or WA?
@as2

[as2]

Maybe ask others that were there with guns. There is a reason Kyle was the only one that killed anyone that night.
It was a 17 year old idiot with a gun that panicked. As a result two people are dead but who cares as they were bad people.

Wow. After this, I'm not sure there is any discussion left to be had. If we take the approach that he was acting in self defense, which at this point there is more evidence to support than to the contrary, how can you justify this statement? "Panicked" seems to be the least fitting description regardless of who's right in this case. Secondly, don't put words in my mouth. Just because the world is better off without someone, doesn't mean "who cares" and you know that as well as I do.

Contradictions and or admissions are not always lies. What matters is what he said on the stand and AFAIK that is accurate.

If Kyle takes the stand we will be saying the same thing, no? He claims in public statements he was asked by the owners to protect the car lot. We now know that was a lie. How about jumping on him for that?

You can nitpick, but he made clear statements to the police, and confirmed those under oath, and made contradictory statements under oath. You want to say he didn't lie, we can agree to disagree.

Yes people get shot doing criminal activity. AFAIK there was no mention of the guy Kyle blew off part of his arm was involved in criminal activity that night.

You sure it is me making all these assumptions? 

He was illegally carrying a firearm with an expired CCW. Is that criminal? He himself admitted it was under oath. Again, you can attack me personally, but I make it very clear when I'm offering my opinion vs when I'm presenting facts, and even when presenting facts, I state that this is how I see them, and anyone who wishes can disagree.

I have to ask where are you getting all this information that the people shot were bad people? From some rightwing nutcase gun blogs or WA?
@as2

Lol are you serious? The prosecution literally removed evidence from this case to avoid the defense bringing one of the individuals character into the case. There are several cases documented. One of them was convicted on 2 of 5 (I believe) counts of forcefully sodomizing 9-11 year olds. Nobody is hiding those, and they are public record. I'm going to end all this here, as I don't believe this is constructive any longer, and it's becoming opinion pushing. Watch the trials, look at the evidence, watch the footage from that night, and look at public record. There's a lot of info out there.