Poll

Guilty or not guilty?

Guilty
5 (5%)
Not Guilty
74 (74%)
Have no idea
21 (21%)

Total Members Voted: 100

Author Topic: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?  (Read 102023 times)

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #460 on: November 11, 2021, 06:35:29 PM »
Were there any interesting aspects in today's testimony?

Prosecution witness said that he could not confirm that the picture wasn't altered when he enlarged it.

Was not in front of the jury, and not sure what the judge decided (about letting the enlarged images be shown to jury) as I stopped watching.

Offline ah giten

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #461 on: November 11, 2021, 06:51:19 PM »
Prosecution witness said that he could not confirm that the picture wasn't altered when he enlarged it.

Was not in front of the jury, and not sure what the judge decided (about letting the enlarged images be shown to jury) as I stopped watching.
Did the enlarged picture at least clearly show the gun drawn?

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #462 on: November 12, 2021, 11:11:51 AM »
Judge just joked about getting certain documents, "I wish less people had my email [address] right now... I think that's probably a common feeling."

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #463 on: November 12, 2021, 11:19:31 AM »
Anyone following? Are they trying to downgrade the charges now?

Offline avromie7

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #464 on: November 12, 2021, 11:22:37 AM »
Anyone following? Are they trying to downgrade the charges now?
I understood it that they want to give the Jury the option to convict him on a lesser charge.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline aygart

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #465 on: November 12, 2021, 11:24:59 AM »
I understood it that they want to give the Jury the option to convict him on a lesser charge.
Standard operating procedure.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #466 on: November 12, 2021, 11:30:06 AM »
Anyone following? Are they trying to downgrade the charges now?
I understood it that they want to give the Jury the option to convict him on a lesser charge.

^This. In other words, the prosecution is trying to make it that the jury can say "Well, the main charge is a super high burden of proof and it was self-defense, but he still shouldn't have been there/behaved that way, so we'll convict him for a lesser charge."

ETA: It appears a little counter-intuitive the way the defense is arguing for harsher charges and the prosecution is arguing for weaker charges, but it's easier to be acquitted on the harsher charges, and then the defense wouldn't want those lesser charges for the jury to fall back on
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 11:45:34 AM by Yehuda57 »

Offline ah giten

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #467 on: November 12, 2021, 01:07:10 PM »
If the prosecutors wanted lesser charges why didn't they charge him for that in first place?
Is it supposed to be a joke?
Your first charge with harsher charges, and if it's falls through you go with the lesser?

Offline UKinNYS

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #468 on: November 12, 2021, 02:10:32 PM »
They thought it was a case of קם ליה בדרבה מיניה
turn out its really a case of eidim zomemim  >:(
If the prosecutors wanted lesser charges why didn't they charge him for that in first place?
Is it supposed to be a joke?
Your first charge with harsher charges, and if it's falls through you go with the lesser?

Offline aygart

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #469 on: November 12, 2021, 03:05:30 PM »


If the prosecutors wanted lesser charges why didn't they charge him for that in first place?
Is it supposed to be a joke?
Your first charge with harsher charges, and if it's falls through you go with the lesser?



Standard operating procedure.

Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #470 on: November 12, 2021, 03:15:10 PM »
His lawyer noted that he's been in therapy for PTSD related to the incident.

Offline Yo ssi

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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #472 on: November 14, 2021, 05:16:40 PM »
Unbelievable
https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/12/22778801/kyle-rittenhouse-bruce-schroeder-screenshot-zoom-in

The only thing unbelievable is that the verge article makes no mention of the fact that the evidence was still allowed, the judge's screenshot issues didn't sway his opinion, and the prosecution still got the provocation jury instruction based on that blurry photo evidence, and that the judge was mocking his own misunderstanding and and cluelessness about technology and wasn't using it as excuse or against the prosecution or defense.

In fact, the judge said, "I don't even want to tell you what I thought of [the blurry photo]" while still allowing it into evidence and providing the prosecution friendly jury instruction.

IMHO, the judge should not have allowed it in to evidence and should not have provided that jury instruction. Not because of the bogus logirithm argument the defense made, but because, like the judge's screenshot, zooming into a low res image, especially a single frame from a 30ffs camera, can not tell you which way a gun was pointing. The defense made a piss poor argument regarding the jury instruction, and had they been more clear about why the jury shouldn't get it the judge would have agreed and the case would effectively be over.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #473 on: November 14, 2021, 06:28:04 PM »
The only thing unbelievable is that the verge article makes no mention of the fact that the evidence was still allowed, the judge's screenshot issues didn't sway his opinion, and the prosecution still got the provocation jury instruction based on that blurry photo evidence, and that the judge was mocking his own misunderstanding and and cluelessness about technology and wasn't using it as excuse or against the prosecution or defense.

In fact, the judge said, "I don't even want to tell you what I thought of [the blurry photo]" while still allowing it into evidence and providing the prosecution friendly jury instruction.

Also brushes past the fact that it was the prosecution who first said that it's no different than what is done on a phone, and that their expert witness who enhanced the image who could not say if the enhanced image was the same as the original.

In order for pictures or videos to be allowed as evidence, there has to be a witness that testifies that they are accurate (I think "fair and accurate" is the legal term.) Thats why they bring the person who took the pictures, or the police officer who collected it to testify in trials.

In this case, the prosecution witness could not testify that the program he used to enlarge the pictures didn't alter them. From a legal perspective that should have been the end of the discussion and they should have been excluded

The "20 minute" thing is also a misrepresentation of what happened as evidenced by the fact that they brought their witness a day or two later, which by my calculations is more than 20 minutes.

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #474 on: November 14, 2021, 06:42:38 PM »
The "20 minute" thing is also a misrepresentation of what happened as evidenced by the fact that they brought their witness a day or two later, which by my calculations is more than 20 minutes.
They were not allowed to pinch and zoom when court resumed so the 20 minutes was not a misrepresentation.
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #475 on: November 14, 2021, 06:51:55 PM »
...and had they been more clear about why the jury shouldn't get it the judge would have agreed and the case would effectively be over.
I know you feel this is a slam-dunk but you are ignoring the medical testimony.

KR first shot shattered Rosenbaum's pelvis which neutralized the threat when he was 1-4ft away from the front of the AR15. KR then shot him in the hand. Then two more shots to back with one being the kill shot. That is total disregard for human life.

If the prosecutor doesn't point that out he should be on trial.  :) 
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #476 on: November 14, 2021, 06:57:59 PM »
I know you feel this is a slam-dunk but you are ignoring the medical testimony.

KR first shot shattered Rosenbaum's pelvis which neutralized the threat when he was 1-4ft away from the front of the AR15. KR then shot him in the hand. Then two more shots to back with one being the kill shot. That is total disregard for human life.

If the prosecutor doesn't point that out he should be on trial.  :)
It's semi automatic. He had a dude on top of him wanting to kill him, those 4 shots were made in a few seconds. You and I both know that experienced pros would have pumped more than 4 bullets into an attacker. The other case you mentioned of a cop who got convicted because of how many shots, it was 16 bullets with a hand gun.

If there was "blatant disregard" there would be a lot more bodies and injured people with the crowds that were there that night.


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #477 on: November 14, 2021, 07:05:05 PM »
It's semi automatic. He had a dude on top of him wanting to kill him, those 4 shots were made in a few seconds. You and I both know that experienced pros would have pumped more than 4 bullets into an attacker. The other case you mentioned of a cop who got convicted because of how many shots, it was 16 bullets with a hand gun.

If there was "blatant disregard" there would be a lot more bodies and injured people with the crowds that were there that night.
I said before there are responsibilities with owning a weapon. The AR15 has tremendous stopping power. The one shot was enough and he could have retreated. He didn't and ending up shooting him in the back. I get it was a short period of time and IMHO he panicked which is understandable.

There is a reason they put him on the stand and didn't object to some of the lesser charges. They don't have the confidence that you have.
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Offline YitzyS

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #478 on: November 14, 2021, 07:13:22 PM »
I know you feel this is a slam-dunk but you are ignoring the medical testimony.

Medical testimony is so outdated. Now we all just follow the science.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse - guilty or not guilty?
« Reply #479 on: November 14, 2021, 07:14:49 PM »
It's semi automatic. He had a dude on top of him wanting to kill him, those 4 shots were made in .79 of a second. You and I both know that experienced pros would have pumped more than 4 bullets into an attacker. The other case you mentioned of a cop who got convicted because of how many shots, it was 16 bullets with a hand gun.

If there was "blatant disregard" there would be a lot more bodies and injured people with the crowds that were there that night.
FTFY