Topic Wiki

there are two models of Hotlogic, Mini and Max
what DDF calls max refers to whats found on Amazon as HOTLOGIC Food Warming Tote, Casserole Carrier, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JQ6WPZD/?tag=cl03f-20&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

and the mini refers to HOTLOGIC Mini Portable Oven, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EC7XJ28?tag=cl03f-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&smid=A1ZFERY662T90Q

here is the DDMS post about the product

https://www.dansdeals.com/shopping-deals/amazon/hotlogic-mini-portable-oven-excellent-travel-office-just-29-95-shipped-amazon/

chinese food means when you squinch your eyes while eating

DDF members also report using a power inverter to have hot food while driving!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KT26D68/?tag=cl03f-20&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

Author Topic: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel  (Read 40771 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #260 on: February 03, 2024, 09:32:33 PM »
Yup, a very mechudashdig Rav. תנא סי׳ יג כה
I didn't go through the whole thing but from a quick look it seems like you have your order wrong. He is referring to a case where the meat was grilled first and then milk was cooked. In such a case, the isser was only cooked, whereas if the grilling was the second one then the isser was grilled.
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #261 on: February 03, 2024, 09:39:52 PM »
I didn't go through the whole thing but from a quick look it seems like you have your order wrong. He is referring to a case where the meat was grilled first and then milk was cooked. In such a case, the isser was only cooked, whereas if the grilling was the second one then the isser was grilled.

He doesn't say the milk was cooked, he says נבלע in all scenarios, and heter being given in length because it's התירא בלע. In your case it would have been a simple נאסר ע״י בישול without the need to invoke התירא בלע at all.

Offline aygart

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #262 on: February 03, 2024, 09:49:29 PM »
He doesn't say the milk was cooked, he says נבלע in all scenarios, and heter being given in length because it's התירא בלע. In your case it would have been a simple נאסר ע״י בישול without the need to invoke התירא בלע at all.
Correct, but the isser cannot have been absorbed through fire. The point is that whichever one was first was absorbed by fire and that was absorbed while it was mutter but the second one which if it the first is still benyomo becomes assur before it is absorbed needs to have been cooked and not with fire.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2024, 09:55:08 PM by aygart »
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #263 on: February 03, 2024, 10:01:47 PM »
Correct, but the isser cannot have been absorbed through fire. The point is that whichever one was first was absorbed by fire and that was absorbed while it was mutter but the second one which if it the first is still benyomo becomes assur before it is absorbed needs to have been cooked and not with fire.

You don't need to resort to התירא בלע in such a case. He clearly talks even when both were through fire. Look at the end of סי׳ כה when discussing kashering on a pot removed from fire when both the milk and the meat were absorbed while the pot was on fire or even ע״י האור.

Therein lies his chidush, he considers absorbed בשר וחלב זה אחר זה even before kashering like heter and not issur. (excellent explanation actually given but not covering the chanan issue so that's a major problem)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2024, 10:08:56 PM by EliJelly »

Offline aygart

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #264 on: February 03, 2024, 10:26:03 PM »
You don't need to resort to התירא בלע in such a case. He clearly talks even when both were through fire. Look at the end of סי׳ כה when discussing kashering on a pot removed from fire when both the milk and the meat were absorbed while the pot was on fire or even ע״י האור.

Therein lies his chidush, he considers absorbed בשר וחלב זה אחר זה even before kashering like heter and not issur. (excellent explanation actually given but not covering the chanan issue so that's a major problem)
You still need to come on to that because The meat that was absorbed first through fire now has taste of milk absorbed into it.

If what was absorbed through fire was second, then it is not a case of hetera bala at all. It absorbed isser of basar bicholov.

Maybe I just need to review the whole thing because as I wrote I only took a quick glance.
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #265 on: February 03, 2024, 10:42:24 PM »
You still need to come on to that because The meat that was absorbed first through fire now has taste of milk absorbed into it.

The meat on itself is not the problem, the issur that happened later was absorbed through cooking and should be ejected through cooking, without resorting to התירא בלע, as long the further use would also be for meat. To change it for milchig indeed התירא בלע would be needed like always.

If what was absorbed through fire was second, then it is not a case of hetera bala at all. It absorbed isser of basar bicholov.

Maybe I just need to review the whole thing because as I wrote I only took a quick glance.

His chiddush is that it's still considered התירא בלע, as at the very depth where only fire reaches the meat is just a טעם קלוש מאוד and therefore preventing it to be חל שם איסור בשר וחלב when the milk arrives afterwards. (the problem is that the issur that happens at the outer parts are now getting absorbed deeper through the fire as issur already)

You should indeed review it attentively, otherwise we'll continue to go in circles. 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2024, 10:52:21 PM by EliJelly »

Offline WayBackMachine

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #266 on: February 04, 2024, 04:16:30 AM »
boiling water. Even if the meat was on the fire it's still heter.
boiling water works against hot oil? isn't oil hotter then water? if you go with כבולעו כך פולטו you would need hot oil, no?

Offline aygart

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #267 on: February 04, 2024, 08:02:45 AM »
boiling water works against hot oil? isn't oil hotter then water? if you go with כבולעו כך פולטו you would need hot oil, no?
It is hetera bala
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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #268 on: February 04, 2024, 05:54:45 PM »
The meat on itself is not the problem, the issur that happened later was absorbed through cooking and should be ejected through cooking, without resorting to התירא בלע, as long the further use would also be for meat. To change it for milchig indeed התירא בלע would be needed like always.

His chiddush is that it's still considered התירא בלע, as at the very depth where only fire reaches the meat is just a טעם קלוש מאוד and therefore preventing it to be חל שם איסור בשר וחלב when the milk arrives afterwards. (the problem is that the issur that happens at the outer parts are now getting absorbed deeper through the fire as issur already)

You should indeed review it attentively, otherwise we'll continue to go in circles.
The case he is discussing is very explicit that it was first meat through zli and then milk. He is also clearly referring to balua with basar and chalav but not basar bicholov. The only way that can happen is if the meat is aino Ben yomo or if there is shishim in the milk against the meat. Once this is the case the milk also only needs hagala. Even if the milk becomes assur it is a liquid and only needs hagala according to most poskim. Therefore the issur can be removed with hagala and the meat remaining is hetera bala. This is also the understanding of MaHaRShaM 2:42 (mentioned in the tziyunim in the Kehot edition)
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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #269 on: February 04, 2024, 06:32:37 PM »
The top actually kind of bubbles. It rests more on the walls than on the pan. It touches some of it, but not all of it.
This didn't happen when I tested 3 of mine
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Offline yelped

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #270 on: February 04, 2024, 08:59:13 PM »
This didn't happen when I tested 3 of mine
The max or the mini? I saw this with the max with a couple of small bekelech inside.

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #271 on: February 04, 2024, 09:07:56 PM »
This didn't happen when I tested 3 of mine
And your pans touch all of the walls?
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #272 on: February 04, 2024, 10:23:48 PM »
The case he is discussing is very explicit that it was first meat through zli and then milk. He is also clearly referring to balua with basar and chalav but not basar bicholov. The only way that can happen is if the meat is aino Ben yomo or if there is shishim in the milk against the meat. Once this is the case the milk also only needs hagala. Even if the milk becomes assur it is a liquid and only needs hagala according to most poskim. Therefore the issur can be removed with hagala and the meat remaining is hetera bala. This is also the understanding of MaHaRShaM 2:42 (mentioned in the tziyunim in the Kehot edition)

When there is shishim or aino b"y it's a no brainer and that's not at all what he discusses. He clearly writes when both were through fire, otherwise hagala would suffice without the need for hetera bala, as I repeatedly pointed out above.
 ואין צריך לומר כשמגעיל כלי הבלוע מבשר וחלב שלדברי הכל יכול להגעילו בכלי ראשון לאחר שהעבירוהו מן האש אף על פי שטעם הבשר והחלב נבלעו בו על ידי האור אם לא נבלעו בו בבת אחת אלא בזה אחר זה מטעם שנתבאר למעלה, (he's not alluding to the minority opinion that only issur cooked in water is ok with hagala).

This is a famous shvere Sh"U Hrav and many have tried to come up to farentfer it, many shabbos hagadol drashos said about it. Quite exhausting to go further in circles. Here is what a quick Google search show about this shvere Rav. Pretty black and white like I said.

Quote
דבר ברור שכלי שנתבשל בו איסור – דין הכשרתו ע"י הגעלה במים רותחים, אך כלי שנצלה בו איסור ונבלע ישירות שלא ע"י מים – לא מספיקה לו הגעלה, רק ליבון באש.

בסוגייתנו זבחים (דף צז.), נתחדש שכלי שבלע מאכל בהיותו מותר, ואח"כ חל עליו איסור בהיותו בלוע, מספיקה לו הגעלה אף שבלע בדרך צלייה, כיון שנבלע בהיותו היתר, ובלשון הגמרא והפוסקים "התירא בלע".

כלי שצלו בו בשר וחלב

מעתה יש לבאר דעות הפוסקים בכלי חלבי שנבלע בו בשר בדרך צלייה האם יצטרך הגעלה כיון שבלע בהיותו היתר, או שכאן כבר נחשב בליעת איסור וכפי שנבאר בעזהשי"ת ויצטרך ליבון.

ויש בזה שני אופנים: האחד – שהבשר נבלע בדרך צליה, והחלב בדרך בשול, שבזה יש מקום לדון שיועיל הגעלה להוציא את כל החלב, כיון שנבלע ע"י בישול ואז לא נשאר חלב כי אם בשר, אופן נוסף – שגם החלב נבלע בדרך צלייה, שבזה בפשטות צריך לבון, אלא שיש לדון מטעם "התירא בלע" שכיון שנבלע בהיותו היתר, ולאחר הבליעה נאסר, תועיל הגעלה גם כשנבלע ע"י צלייה

שפוד שצלו בו בשר קרבנות

נבאר תחילה הדין המבואר בזבחים (דף צז.) ששפוד שצלו בו בשר קרבן אפשר להכשירו בהגעלה, והגמרא בסוף עבודה זרה (דף עו.) שואלת: הרי מה שנבלע ע"י צלייה צריך לבון, ומסקנת הגמרא שם שכיון שבלע בהיותו היתר מועילה הגעלה, ולא רק אם מכשירו בעודו היתר קודם שנעשה נותר, אלא אפילו אם כשמכשירו כבר נעשה נותר – בכל זאת מועילה הגעלה ואין צריך לבון, כיון שבשעת הבליעה היה היתר, וכן  פסק המשנה ברורה (סי' תנ"א ס"ק כ"ח).

ופרש"י, שאין איסורו חמור כיון שכשנעשה נותר לא היה בעין, אלא היה בלוע בתוך הכלי, ולעולם לא הוכר איסורו, והריטב"א הוסיף לפרש, שקדשים בשעה שנבלעו היו מותרים, וכשהגיע הזמן שיחול עליהם איסור נותר – היו בלועים, אין האיסור חל רק על מה שראוי לפלוט ע"י הגעלה, שהיא בליעה גדולה שיש בה נתינת טעם, וכשהגעיל ויצא עיקר הבליעה – אף שנשתייר אותו המעט שאינו יוצא אלא ע"י לבון, אותו מעט אינו אוסר.

לפי האמור יוצא, שכלי שבלע בשר ע"י צלייה ואח"כ חלב אפילו בו ביום {שהטעם לא נפגם}, אין צריך לבון ומועילה הגעלה, כיון שבלע בהיותו היתר.

חדוש ה'שו"ע הרב'

וכן כתב השולחן ערוך הרב (סי' תנ"א סי"ג בהגה"ה) ובאר באריכות טעם הדבר, שאם נצלה בשר לבדו שהוא היתר, ואחר כך נבלע חלב – מועיל להכשיר בהגעלה, ואף על פי שטעם בשר הנבלע ע"י אש אינו נפלט מהם לגמרי ע"י הגעלה, מ"מ אותו טעם שאינו יוצא בהגעלה – הוא מועט וקלוש מאד, ולא ראוי שיחול עליו דין חדש של איסור בשר בחלב, לכן מועילה להם הגעלה, להוציא את עיקר טעם הבשר ועיקר טעם החלב, שנאסרו מחמת שהם ראויים לקבל שם של בשר בחלב, והם נפלטים בהגעלה כי אינם בלועים מאד, ושארית הטעם של הבשר והחלב, שנבלעו בחוזק ע"י האש – הם קלושים מאד, ואין ראוי לחול עליהם שם חדש של בשר וחלב.

וחזר להזכיר זאת בקצרה (בסעיף כה'), שאפילו שנבלעו בשר וחלב ע"י אש, אם לא נבלעו בבת אחת מועילה להם הגעלה, אכן אם נבלעו בבת אחת – אינם יוצאים בהגעלה אלא בליבון, כיון שאז נאסרו ביחד בשעת הבישול ונבלעו כשהם אסורים, לכן צריך ליבון.

דעת האיסור והיתר הארוך

אכן מצאנו לאחד הקדמונים בספר 'איסור והיתר' (כלל נ"ח סכ"ג וכ"ה) שכתב את הדין שבליעת היתר מועילה להגעלה, וכתב חילוק שאם בא להכשיר בלי שבלע בשר – מועיל להגעיל אותו ואח"כ לבשל בו חלב.

אבל כלי בשרי שנאסר ע"י בליעת חלב ע"י האש, או להיפך, נחשב בליעת איסור וצריך ליבון.

וצריך להבין, שהרי כפי המבואר בגמרא לגבי צליית קדשים יוצא, שגם אם מכשירו לאחר שעבר זמן אכילתו ונעשה נותר, מועילה לו הגעלה כיון שבשעת הבליעה היה היתר, א"כ גם בשר שבכלי שאח"כ בישל בכלי חלב – יחשב "התריא בלע".

אלא הביאור בדברי האיסור והיתר הוא ברור: שהרי בשעה שמבשל חלב יוצר שתי פעולות: האחת, שהחלב נכנס בדפנות הכלי בבשר הבלוע בו {וחלק זה יתכן לקרוא לו "התריא בלע"}, ופעולה נוספת, שיוצא טעם הבלוע בכלי מהבשר, לתוך החלב המתבשל ואוסר אותו, ושוב נכנס ונבלע בכלי חלב האסור מטעם בשר שנפלט אליו, וחלק זה אם נבלע על ידי אש – איך יתכן לקרוא לו "התירא בלע", הרי חזר ונבלע בהיותו אסור, באופן שדברי האו"ה ברורים ומחוורים.

דינים העולים

עתה נבאר העולה לדינא:

בשר קדשים שנבלע בצלייה בהיותו נותר צריך לבון.
בשר קדשים שנבלע בעודו היתר על ידי צלייה, ובא להכשירו לאחר שנעשה נותר, מועילה לו הגעלה, כיון שנבלע בעודו היתר, משנ"ב (סי' תנ"א ס"ק כ"ח).
בשר שנצלה עם חלב בכלי, צריך להכשירו בליבון חמור, כיון שנכנס איסור בכלי ע"י אש.
נצלה בו בשר ורוצה להכשירו, ואח"כ להשתמש בו לחלבי – מועיל הגעלה כיון שעדיין לא נאסר.
אם נצלה בו בשר ואחריו חלב לפני שעברו 24 שעות, נתבאר מהאיסור והיתר שטעון לבון, ונתבאר טעמו שאין זה "התירא בלע", כיון שהחלב בעודו נצלה נאסר מהטעם שבכלי, וחוזר ונבלע בהיותו אסור {ודעת השו"ע הרב להקל בזה וצ"ע}.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2024, 10:27:22 PM by EliJelly »

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #273 on: February 06, 2024, 02:36:16 PM »
And your pans touch all of the walls?
Here are (POM sized) pans sold with covers at a local store. It doesn't touch any wall, let alone all 6 walls where Hatmana would come into play.



Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #274 on: February 06, 2024, 03:33:57 PM »
Here are (POM sized) pans sold with covers at a local store. It doesn't touch any wall, let alone all 6 walls where Hatmana would come into play.





IANAR but from the picture it seems like all 4 corners are touching. Bottom obviously touches. There's no way to tell from the picture about the top.
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Offline Dovy365

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #275 on: February 15, 2024, 09:56:44 AM »
Hey guys,

Any recent DP on using it with a 220v converter? Any recommendations on which converter to use?

TIA!

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #276 on: February 15, 2024, 10:51:28 AM »
Hey guys,

Any recent DP on using it with a 220v converter? Any recommendations on which converter to use?

TIA!

Works just as fine as with the un-recent reports.
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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #277 on: February 21, 2024, 11:44:35 AM »
Works just as fine as with the un-recent reports.
Shkoyach!

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Re: HotLogic Warming Totes For Travel
« Reply #278 on: February 22, 2024, 12:33:19 AM »
Works just as fine as with the un-recent reports.
shoot didn't even think about this needing a converter

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Re: What Do You Do For Kosher Food While Traveling?
« Reply #279 on: March 20, 2024, 03:39:23 PM »
The HotLogic warmers can be used with 220v? Used it on Shabbos with just an adapter (don't think it does down volt conversion) and it worked just fine. Only realized afterwards that it might be 110v only, and that's what it says online, although worked fine for me.

Any one has any experience with it?

I am looking into getting a step-down converters, and some of them say for Electric appliances only, not electronic appliances. Not sure what the distinction is, and what the HotLogic would be considered.

See for example:



Or (notice the instapot or rice cooker):

I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan