Author Topic: Another self-defense case.  (Read 749 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Offline S209

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2021, 09:11:27 PM »
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Online aygart

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2021, 09:21:01 PM »
Interested to see the comments on this one.  :)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/attention-turns-to-chrystul-kizer-s-self-defense-case-after-kyle-rittenhouse-verdict/ar-AAR33mf?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
Legally this will depend on the exact mechanics of the law and the details of what happened that night, but I definitely see a strong case for her to walk.
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Online zh cohen

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2021, 09:37:13 PM »
Legally this will depend on the exact mechanics of the law and the details of what happened that night, but I definitely see a strong case for her to walk.

Morally she should be let free (and given a metal).

I wonder if self defense is the right legal argument for the charges of burning down the house and taking the car.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2021, 09:48:12 PM »
I wonder if self defense is the right legal argument for the charges of burning down the house and taking the car.
That would be the third and fourth shot.  ;)
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Offline TimT

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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2021, 10:01:17 PM »
Not like KR was the first politically charged self defense case. Breonna Taylor's boyfriend had his charges dropped pre trial.
Interested to see the comments on this one.  :)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/attention-turns-to-chrystul-kizer-s-self-defense-case-after-kyle-rittenhouse-verdict/ar-AAR33mf?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

The case is not analogous to the KR case at all, aside from them being self defense. Trying to compare them is just about turning everything into a race war when it need not be.

I don't know anything about the case beyond the article you posted, and my initial reaction is either she was acting in self defense, and if she wasn't (and it was revenge) the DA should let her go and worry about the rest of their case log.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2021, 10:45:56 PM »
Without further knowledge of her case - assuming she shot him dead, and assuming it was preventing sexual abuse, she should be cleared for murder. For arson and theft they should go easy on her.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2021, 12:34:07 AM »
What an awful piece. The 2 cases are not comparable.
They are comparing the self-defense part.
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Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2021, 12:39:57 AM »
They are comparing the self-defense part.

Does she have any evidence that he was trying to kill her? KR did, which is why he was acquitted. The scenarios are ridiculously non analogous too. This was obviously a business associate in a sordid business she'd been dealing with for years. Something seemed to have soured in their relationship. This is more similar to OJ case than KR.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2021, 12:52:37 AM »
Does she have any evidence that he was trying to kill her? KR did, which is why he was acquitted.
KR perceived there was a threat. She is claiming she was sexually abused and it was continuing.
This was obviously a business associate in a sordid business she'd been dealing with for years.
This doesn't deserve a response.  ::)
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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2021, 12:59:47 AM »
Not sure if this is correct but: A Kenosha judge blocked her claiming self-defense, and she must prove she acted as a result of child sex trafficking.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2021, 02:15:24 AM »
Not sure if this is correct but: A Kenosha judge blocked her claiming self-defense, and she must prove she acted as a result of child sex trafficking.

She claimed affirmative defense, not self-defense. Burden of proof is on the defendant. No, Iím not an expert on this, but this gigantic WSJ article from 2019 does not mention self-defense once, and only discusses whether she can make an affirmative defense claim for sex trafficking that leads to homicide, and still the burden is on her to prove that it did.

Reading through the article will make your opinion change multiple times and shows thereís so much to the story that needs to be known to even start discussing it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/local/child-sex-trafficking-murder/
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 02:19:37 AM by yuneeq »

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2021, 09:13:57 AM »
They are comparing the self-defense part.
She claimed affirmative defense, not self-defense. Burden of proof is on the defendant. No, Iím not an expert on this, but this gigantic WSJ article from 2019 does not mention self-defense once, and only discusses whether she can make an affirmative defense claim for sex trafficking that leads to homicide, and still the burden is on her to prove that it did.

Reading through the article will make your opinion change multiple times and shows thereís so much to the story that needs to be known to even start discussing it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/local/child-sex-trafficking-murder/

Just read through the WP article. What a horrific story, and a tragic life. There are so many layers of dysfunction and horror here, on all levels.

Justice and judging when two wrongs make a right is for G-d alone, as is establishing the actual facts of the case. I certainly cannot weigh on this either way.

This is also an absurd comparison to KR. There's literally not a similar element.

Offline as2

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2021, 09:22:45 AM »
Definitely curious to see more on this case. On a moral level, I think there is plenty of leeway for her, but on a legal level it's a lot more complicated. I believe there is a different legal stance when someone believes they are in danger and reacts in that moment, vs when they are in general danger and reacts when an opportunity is given at a later time. Can't say I wouldn't do the same in her case (leaving aside the arson and theft for a moment) but not sure if the law upholds it. Really sad situation that seems to be more prevalent than we'd like to admit.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2021, 10:19:18 AM »
She claimed affirmative defense, not self-defense. Burden of proof is on the defendant. No, Iím not an expert on this, but this gigantic WSJ article from 2019 does not mention self-defense once, and only discusses whether she can make an affirmative defense claim for sex trafficking that leads to homicide, and still the burden is on her to prove that it did.
The judge denied this defense, correct?
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2021, 12:33:24 PM »
This was obviously a business associate in a sordid business she'd been dealing with for years. Something seemed to have soured in their relationship.

Sorry, but I can't let this pass without objecting. This is absolutely revolting. She was a child who was trafficked and raped countless times by a monster. Calling that monster a "business associate", the most inhumane abuse "sordid business", or years of torturous abuse "a soured relationship" is so far beyond the pale I don't even have the words to express how disgusting that is.
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Offline AsherO

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Offline TimT

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2021, 02:10:54 PM »
If anyone needs to be charged with homicide it should be the scumbag that decided itís a good idea to release this dangerous predator back to the streets to continue his heinous crimes, even though authorities had lots of evidence of his monstrosities.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Another self-defense case.
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2021, 02:30:41 PM »
She claimed affirmative defense, not self-defense. Burden of proof is on the defendant. No, Iím not an expert on this, but this gigantic WSJ article from 2019 does not mention self-defense once, and only discusses whether she can make an affirmative defense claim for sex trafficking that leads to homicide, and still the burden is on her to prove that it did.

Reading through the article will make your opinion change multiple times and shows thereís so much to the story that needs to be known to even start discussing it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/local/child-sex-trafficking-murder/

What a tragic, horrifying story. I don't envy the judge, that is one weighty decision to have to make without relying on precedent.

OTOH, the DA needs to be tarred and feathered for having that monster on the streets with the mounds of evidence against him and then going so hard after her.
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