Raising Rent In Lakewood

[dealfinder11]

So you feel that when the upstairs is owner occupied rent should be higher?

Starting rent should be whatever you can get for it. But any rent increase after the contract is up should be approached with all that in mind. Same goes in reverse, when the tenant is renegotiating when the market is saturated. In the latter case, the tenant generally has more leverage as they can just vacate and go for a cheaper/better option.

[jye]

They are you neighbors on steroids. Families living connected lives, sharing front and back etc. And you both have a good idea of whats happening in each others personal lives (Soundproofing LOL). Any landlord that thinks they are just renting out "excess space" to help pay for their mortgage, and doesn't realize you are sacrificing a significant element of privacy is completely deluded IMO.

Do you think a social worker should be obligated to offer a below market price to her client because so much of the clients personal life and innermost feelings are shared with her therapist?

[Yikes2179]

Do you think a social worker should be obligated to offer a below market price to her client because so much of the clients personal life and innermost feelings are shared with her therapist?

That's the exact opposite of the landlord. The landlord is sharing his life with the tenant

[aygart]

Starting rent should be whatever you can get for it. But any rent increase after the contract is up should be approached with all that in mind. Same goes in reverse, when the tenant is renegotiating when the market is saturated. In the latter case, the tenant generally has more leverage as they can just vacate and go for a cheaper/better option.

I can assure you that landlords keep the neighborly relationship in mind.

[David61]

Why would it be ehrlich or mentschlich to expect a landlord not to raise rent to the maximum allowed by law/halacha?

(FTR, I have not been a renter or a landlord in over 20 years)

(1) There is a person (family) on the other side of the transaction, to whom it will cause financial and/or emotional distress
(2) It an essential item (not a luxury or discretionary item)
(3) Not to push a guy/family out of kollel
(4) The tenant is usually in a weaker financial position

And on a less objective front
--Which gadol that you admire would do act that way?
--Do you think behavior would make a Kiddush Hashem?
--Do you think this is part of the histadlus Hashem requires we do to get our allotted portion?
--Would/could stating that the landlord did that be Lashon Hora/could be viewed negatively?
--Would you like specific quotes in pirkei avos? Mishneh beginning "Aizehu derech sheyavor hadam . . kol she tiferes L'oseha"
--Middos tovos at times require we go beyond the absolute requirements of shulchan aruch.

Try to take Hashem's perspective: How would you want your kids to act, if one was the landlord and the other was the tenant?

[nbfromnj]

Someone I know was told recently that his rent was raised to 3800 retroactive to when his contract expired 2 years ago, and is now being taken to BD because he's demanding the "extra rent" from the past 2 years. Even better is that this tenant was eligible for COVID rent assistance but his landlord refused to sign the necessary docs because he demanded the rent off the books. The tenant lost out on 21k because of it.

I asked a rabbi about this because it sounds so crazy. I was told that the halacha is that if someone has a contract that expires and no changes are made prior to expiration, the original terms of the contract automatically roll over for the same amount of time as the original contract stated. so if the original lease was a 2 year lease and no changes were made to the terms at the end of that time, the landlord has to wait another 2 years before he can change the terms. there is definitely no such thing as a retroactive change in terms. not sure what they are in beis din about

[davidd75]

I asked a rabbi about this because it sounds so crazy. I was told that the halacha is that if someone has a contract that expires and no changes are made prior to expiration, the original terms of the contract automatically roll over for the same amount of time as the original contract stated. so if the original lease was a 2 year lease and no changes were made to the terms at the end of that time, the landlord has to wait another 2 years before he can change the terms. there is definitely no such thing as a retroactive change in terms. not sure what they are in beis din about

thats weird I thought it rolls into a month to month lease after expiration of a 2 year lease; never heard it rolls into a second 2 year term.  I dont think that's din demalchuta either.

[yelped]

I asked a rabbi about this because it sounds so crazy. I was told that the halacha is that if someone has a contract that expires and no changes are made prior to expiration, the original terms of the contract automatically roll over for the same amount of time as the original contract stated. so if the original lease was a 2 year lease and no changes were made to the terms at the end of that time, the landlord has to wait another 2 years before he can change the terms. there is definitely no such thing as a retroactive change in terms. not sure what they are in beis din about

Really? Don't these things follow what is stipulated in the contract? Typically they state that if the contract is not extended, the lease will continue month-to-month.

[nbfromnj]

Really? Don't these things follow what is stipulated in the contract? Typically they state that if the contract is not extended, the lease will continue month-to-month.

If the contracts stipulates that. If not, then the original terms roll over. In any case, I don't think he can claim retroactive even in it was month to month for the past 2 years unless contract stipulated that as well

[nbfromnj]

thats weird I thought it rolls into a month to month lease after expiration of a 2 year lease; never heard it rolls into a second 2 year term.  I dont think that's din demalchuta either.

my understanding is that din demalchuta only applies when it does not contradict halacha

[yelped]

If the contracts stipulates that. If not, then the original terms roll over. In any case, I don't think he can claim retroactive even in it was month to month for the past 2 years unless contract stipulated that as well

All contracts should state that. Halacha will generally defer to Dina D'Malchusa and Minhag HaMedina when it comes to contracts.

[davidd75]

my understanding is that din demalchuta only applies when it does not contradict halacha

1.as stated by others most contracts mention a month to month roll over
2.  Is that really the halacha that the exact terms get reinstated to original terms?

[dealfinder11]

I have never asked the shailah, however what i have heard is that in the event the contract expires and converts to month-to-month, at any point in the future, the landlord reserves the right to raise rent at 5 percent annually from the date of the initial contract expiring. So if tenant was paying 1K per the contract, and didn't get raised the next year, the following year the landlord can raise by $100. If he waits another year he can raise to $1155 and so on.

[AsherO]

I have never asked the shailah, however what i have heard is that in the event the contract expires and converts to month-to-month, at any point in the future, the landlord reserves the right to raise rent at 5 percent annually from the date of the initial contract expiring. So if tenant was paying 1K per the contract, and didn't get raised the next year, the following year the landlord can raise by $100. If he waits another year he can raise to $1155 and so on.

Halachically? Legally? Is any of this retroactive?

[jye]

I have never asked the shailah, however what i have heard is that in the event the contract expires and converts to month-to-month, at any point in the future, the landlord reserves the right to raise rent at 5 percent annually from the date of the initial contract expiring. So if tenant was paying 1K per the contract, and didn't get raised the next year, the following year the landlord can raise by $100. If he waits another year he can raise to $1155 and so on.

It’s legally but has so many exceptions (new construction, owner occupied, etc.) it applies to few if any Lakewood rentals. From what I’ve heard in recent years some poskim will apply the 5% more broadly to Lakewood apartments assuming a rather broad minhag even though they are legally exempt. Others won’t. Some will not apply the 5% limit  to apartments which aren’t legal rentals anyway. Not sure if all this has changed in the current environment of runaway inflation.

[chff]

If the basements are not 'legal' does one still have to follow 'legal' rent increase limits?

[jye]

If the basements are not 'legal' does one still have to follow 'legal' rent increase limits?

YMMV depending on the rav

[dealfinder11]

If the basements are not 'legal' does one still have to follow 'legal' rent increase limits?

What happens if the tenant refuses to agree to the increase? Not sure about eviction being an option for "illegal" basements.

[lakewood34]

What happens if the tenant refuses to agree to the increase? Not sure about eviction being an option for "illegal" basements.

does he have a halachic right to refuse the increase  -if not then he is stealing and being able to get away with should be  irrelevant and if he has a halachic right to refuse it (it's more then 5 percent and he went to a rav/beis din etc.) then as a frum yid one would hope the landlord would make no effort to evict him because he should be living his life within the parameters of halachah even when it costs him money -just like kosher food is more expensive then non kosher food but that doesn't allow you to purchase non kosher food

[flyingace]

If the basements are not 'legal' does one still have to follow 'legal' rent increase limits?

A basement apartment is legal in Lakewood. Has been for quite a while.