Raising Rent In Lakewood

[dm123]

An existing tenant is a whole different story.

Not raising rent is a whole different story?

[yuneeq]

yuneeq, is this in the "range of prices"?

No, it’s charity (and existing tenant is different as mentioned)

[dm123]

No, it’s charity (and existing tenant is different as mentioned)

So IIUC you're now saying it's charity and you're on the same page as jye:

that makes him a baal tzedaka

And why is an existing tenant different? If the rent is grossly mispriced from current market wouldn't you say the landlord should try and get as close to market as he can and not leave the annual available rent raise on the table?

[aygart]

Where?

I'm not saying the right thing or what is supposed to be done. I'm just saying there may be different mindsets/situations which will lead to different behaviors in how one sets the price.

[aygart]

So IIUC you're now saying it's charity and you're on the same page as jye:

And why is an existing tenant different?

Because that is the Halacha, law and minhag not necessarily in that order

[yuneeq]

So IIUC you're now saying it's charity and you're on the same page as jye:

And why is an existing tenant different? If the rent is grossly mispriced from current market wouldn't you say the landlord should try and get as close to market as he can and not leave the annual available rent raise on the table?

As mentioned many times in this thread, there are many instances where you can’t legally, contractually, or halachikly raise the rent on existing tenants.

[dm123]

I wasn't saying ones personal feelings of what is good should be done, I was saying there are more factors than just "market rate" one might be basing their price on.

[aygart]

I wasn't saying ones personal feelings of what is good should be done, I was saying there are more factors than just "market rate" one might be basing their price on.

Mindsets, situations, behaviors, blah, blah. All mush with no clear line. It should go by cost, but it shouldn't always go by cost, but he should be able to raise but he shouldn't.

[dm123]

As mentioned many times in this thread, there are many instances where you can’t legally, contractually, or halachikly raise the rent on existing tenants.

Because that is the Halacha, law and minhag not necessarily in that order

To clarify, I wasn't saying the landlord should not listen to halacha/minhag/contract and raise to current market rates, I was saying he shouldn't leave the available (if any) annual rent raise on the table.

try and get as close to market as he can and not leave the annual available rent raise on the table?

as he can meaning halachically legally etc.
Unless there was a contract mentioned specifying "no rent raise of any amount ever" that I missed?

[dm123]

Mindsets, situations, behaviors, blah, blah. All mush with no clear line. It should go by cost, but it shouldn't always go by cost, but he should be able to raise but he shouldn't.

Welcome to life. Lots of gray area. That's partially why it's so important to have Rabbonim/mentors to help guide one through all the mushy fogginess

[aygart]

Welcome to life. Lots of gray area. That's partially why it's so important to have Rabbonim/mentors to help guide one through all the mushy fogginess

Yet you started with it being the right thing not to raise rent

[dm123]

Yet you started with it being the right thing not to raise rent

Not sure what post you're referring to.

[dm123]

I'm just trying to show there may be more ways than "market price" to reasonably price one's goods. I don't know what the "right way" or the "way it's supposed to be done" is. If there is a Chazal or Halacha/minhag that one needs to or should price their goods at market value, that will be the end of that (for me at least).

[aygart]

I'm just trying to show there may be more ways than "market price" to reasonably price one's goods. I don't know what the "right way" or the "way it's supposed to be done" is. If there is a Chazal or Halacha/minhag that one needs to or should price their goods at market value, that will be the end of that (for me at least).

Of course. If someone wants to keep a tenant they like they will be much more flexible.

[yuneeq]

I'm just trying to show there may be more ways than "market price" to reasonably price one's goods. I don't know what the "right way" or the "way it's supposed to be done" is.

I don't know of any "reasonable" way to price something except at market price. Gemara deals with pricing all over and I don't recall any other benchmark besides "market price" being used.

[Ver hut gazugt]

I don't know of any "reasonable" way to price something except at market price. Gemara deals with pricing all over and I don't recall any other benchmark besides "market price" being used.

what you paid is also used. Can’t remember the exact Halacha but there is a limit how much you can charge over your costs.

[imayid2]

what you paid is also used. Can’t remember the exact Halacha but there is a limit how much you can charge over your costs.

You’re going to need a source for this.
Can I sell something I found or received as a gift or got it for free somehow through DD?

[Ver hut gazugt]

You’re going to need a source for this.
Can I sell something I found or received as a gift or got it for free somehow through DD?

Profit Limitation

The discussion to this point has dealt with profiteering. assuming that there is a fixed price. We have not discussed how the price was determined, or whether there is a permissible profit margin. There is one Talmudic source -from the Amoraic period - which addresses this problem. "Shmuel said: one may not increase the weights or the coins by more than a sixth, and one may not profit more than a sixth." (BB 90a) The ensuing Talmudic discussion relates solely to the first part of Shmuel's dictum, but does not add anything to the second part. The Rashbam (ad. bc.) explains that it is a rabbinic enactment in order to prevent excessive price levels.

[jye]

Profit Limitation

The discussion to this point has dealt with profiteering. assuming that there is a fixed price. We have not discussed how the price was determined, or whether there is a permissible profit margin. There is one Talmudic source -from the Amoraic period - which addresses this problem. "Shmuel said: one may not increase the weights or the coins by more than a sixth, and one may not profit more than a sixth." (BB 90a) The ensuing Talmudic discussion relates solely to the first part of Shmuel's dictum, but does not add anything to the second part. The Rashbam (ad. bc.) explains that it is a rabbinic enactment in order to prevent excessive price levels.

The point of Shmuel was to prevent price increases and inflation in the first place. He was not addressing a situation where the market price is already higher.
You forgot to add one small caveat that the mechaber רל״א סעיף כ adds:
במה דברים אמורים: בשלא הוקר השער, אבל אם הוקר השער ימכור כפי היוקר

[Ver hut gazugt]

You forgot to add one small caveat that the mechaber רל״א סעיף כ adds:
במה דברים אמורים: בשלא הוקר השער, אבל אם הוקר השער ימכור כפי היוקר

there are many caveats, I was only mentioning that market price is not the only calculus.
And the שער it self is a complicated subject. Who defines the price? And based on what parameters etc…