Author Topic: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?  (Read 4132 times)

Offline jye

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2021, 09:35:29 AM »
Most of the Worldís Vaccines Likely Wonít Prevent Infection From Omicron
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/19/health/omicron-vaccines-efficacy.amp.html


Offline Eli911

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2021, 10:16:50 AM »
Most of the Worldís Vaccines Likely Wonít Prevent Infection From Omicron
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/19/health/omicron-vaccines-efficacy.amp.html

So you're saying to get boosters? Agreed.

Offline jye

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2021, 12:24:28 PM »
So you're saying to get boosters? Agreed.
If they are efficacious long enough to make repeated booster shots practical to implement (you canít inoculate the entire population every 3 weeks) and will stop the spread then by all means.

Offline yos9694

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2021, 01:12:10 PM »
Here's a relevant message from the whitehouse website on the subject. The speaker decided not to pull any punches, I guess. Bit of a crazy quote, especially about hospitals dying.

Quote
Our vaccines work against Omicron, especially for people who get booster shots when they are eligible.  If you are vaccinated, you could test positive.  But if you do get COVID, your case will likely be asymptomatic or mild.

We are intent on not letting Omicron disrupt work and school for the vaccinated.  Youíve done the right thing, and we will get through this.

For the unvaccinated, youíre looking at a winter of severe illness and death for yourselves, your families, and the hospitals you may soon overwhelm.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/12/17/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-74/

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2021, 01:52:06 PM »
Here's a relevant message from the whitehouse website on the subject. The speaker decided not to pull any punches, I guess. Bit of a crazy quote, especially about hospitals dying.
Someone should proofread it before releasing it?
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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2021, 02:04:43 PM »
Someone should proofread it before releasing it?
You try proofreading Biden
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline 4yourinfo

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination = seatbelts?
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2021, 03:00:50 PM »
One example:

ďViral loads are the same for vaccinated and unvaccinatedĒ is a typical anti-vax talking point. It doesnít consider that the vaccine reportedly prevented COVID infections in ~50% of cases (or maybe less than 50%. but in some cases), and the ďsame viral loadĒ wasnít relevant in those people who didnít get infected. We know Omicron is more prone to reinfecntion, but itís waaay too soon to know what percentage of infections are prevented in recently-bolstered people.

Also, your entire tone and bias is anti-vaxxy. All of this has been debated ad-nauseum, so Iím not going to go in circles with you on it.
The vaccine does not prevent 50 percent of cases. Any study you'll show me won't factor in whether the people had a prior infection as they never factor in asymptomatic infections. Just take a look on the ground and you'll see anyone that is seriously exposed gets covid. Just wondering at what percentage point will you finally agree to stop pushing this vaccine on others? To the question if it's like a seatbelt? I vote "NO" Seatbelts aren't injecting stuff into your body which can cause side effects..

Offline AsherO

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2021, 03:35:58 PM »
The vaccine does not prevent 50 percent of cases. Any study you'll show me won't factor in whether the people had a prior infection as they never factor in asymptomatic infections. Just take a look on the ground and you'll see anyone that is seriously exposed gets covid. Just wondering at what percentage point will you finally agree to stop pushing this vaccine on others? To the question if it's like a seatbelt? I vote "NO" Seatbelts aren't injecting stuff into your body which can cause side effects..

This study includes asymptomatic infections, itís pre-Delta and shows a real world reduction in infections. It doesnít factor those who were previously infected, but thatís true for both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. Do you have any reason to believe the vaccinated group had a larger percentage of participants with natural immunity?

Either way, Iím not pushing the vaccine on anyone. I push back at what I perceive as anti-vac rhetoric being pushed on others.

Let me turn your question back to you, what percentage of efficacy for the vaccine would make you supportive of it?

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vaccines.html
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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2021, 03:41:45 PM »
anyone that is seriously exposed
What does this mean?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AsherO

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2021, 03:44:12 PM »
What does this mean?

It means you arenít smiling during exposure. Smiling is good for the immune system and helps prevent infection. Smile, it could save your life.
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Offline 4yourinfo

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2021, 03:54:14 PM »
This study includes asymptomatic infections, itís pre-Delta and shows a real world reduction in infections. It doesnít factor those who were previously infected, but thatís true for both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. Do you have any reason to believe the vaccinated group had a larger percentage of participants with natural immunity?

Either way, Iím not pushing the vaccine on anyone. I push back at what I perceive as anti-vac rhetoric being pushed on others.

Let me turn your question back to you, what percentage of efficacy for the vaccine would make you supportive of it?

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vaccines.html
People in the medical field / public service were all exposed and most likely have a much higher percentage of having covid. All those people are either mandated or at least much quicker to have gotten vacinated.

When the vaccine came out @ 96 percent I was all for it - albeit not for those with prior infections at 96 I would even be pro mandates - it's been done with many other vaccines.. I think once it hits like 70 percent when your not going to reach any kind of immunity it's time to give stop pushing it - 
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 04:04:44 PM by 4yourinfo »

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2021, 04:00:26 PM »
People in the medical field / public service were all exposed and most likely have a much higher percentage of having covid. All those people are either mandated or at least much quicker to have gotten vacinated.
Do you have real numbers or just the assumptions you are making up to fit your agenda?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline 4yourinfo

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2021, 04:08:07 PM »
Do you have real numbers or just the assumptions you are making up to fit your agenda?
hypothesis

Offline 4yourinfo

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2021, 04:08:40 PM »
What does this mean?
Same as the last time I wrote it

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2021, 04:18:30 PM »
Same as the last time I wrote it
So you don't want to explain what it means?
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2021, 04:19:02 PM »
hypothesis
So it is assumptions as I thought. Okay.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline jye

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2021, 04:23:05 PM »
Here's a relevant message from the whitehouse website on the subject. The speaker decided not to pull any punches, I guess. Bit of a crazy quote, especially about hospitals dying.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/12/17/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-74/


Are they threatening to kill the hospitals?

Offline AsherO

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2021, 04:28:50 PM »
People in the medical field / public service were all exposed and most likely have a much higher percentage of having covid. All those people are either mandated or at least much quicker to have gotten vacinated.

When the vaccine came out @ 96 percent I was all for it - albeit not for those with prior infections at 96 I would even be pro mandates - it's been done with many other vaccines.. I think once it hits like 70 percent when your not going to reach any kind of immunity it's time to give stop pushing it - 

Higher percentage for natural immunity or not, those vaccinated still had 80+% reduction in COVID (including asymptomatic infection) than those unvaccinated. Even if all of those unvaccinated had natural immunity, or if none of them did, Iím not sure how itís relevant. Unless youíre claiming the vaccinated group didnít get COVID due to natural immunity, but thereís no evidence of that and no reason to assume those with natural immunity rushed to get vaccinated more than those without.

ETA: as for your claim that youíd support a vaccine mandate when efficacy was claimed to be 96%, your post history implies bias in the opposite direction.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 04:36:15 PM by AsherO »
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Offline 4yourinfo

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination now = seatbelts?
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2021, 04:32:37 PM »
So you don't want to explain what it means?
When millions of healthy vacinated people are getting covid it's safe to assume if you didn't get covid it has nothing to do with your vaccine rather to lack of exposure (exposure required will obviously depend on how strong your immune system is at the time ex. Lack of sleep vitamins etc.).. I'm just not convinced you can explain why only a select few people are having robust immune response from the vaccine.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 04:42:14 PM by 4yourinfo »

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Re: Omicron- does vaccination = seatbelts?
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2021, 04:35:13 PM »
The vaccine does not prevent 50 percent of cases. Any study you'll show me won't factor in whether the people had a prior infection as they never factor in asymptomatic infections. Just take a look on the ground and you'll see anyone that is seriously exposed gets covid. Just wondering at what percentage point will you finally agree to stop pushing this vaccine on others? To the question if it's like a seatbelt? I vote "NO" Seatbelts aren't injecting stuff into your body which can cause side effects..
What about deaths among vaccinated and unvaccinated. Those who were prior infected are still considered unvaccinated for the death totals so if they are protected that should bring the unvaccinated death rate down. That isn't what the numbers tell us.
Vaccinations work and save lives!!!
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