WAR! Russia Attacks Ukraine Master Thread

[TimT]

When was the last time I was worried about WWIII?

2016-2020

[drosenberg88429]

When was the last time I was worried about WWIII? 30-40 years ago?

Is directly military intervening in Ukraine more likely to lead to or away from WW3?

[davidd75]

I didn't ask whether you should be worked up about all those things. I asked when the last time you were actually worked up about them.

what's the difference?  even if true that the media has played a bigger role in this war the principal remains the same

[drosenberg88429]

which is probably to intervene if you were honest with yourself

Of course that's true. But I don't get to use my countries resources and sacrifice my countrymen's lives for my personal agendas, as compelling as they may be. It needs to serve a greater good for the benefits to our country and society to outweigh the costs.

[zh cohen]

Whoopi Goldberg?

Nicole Hannah Jones (the de-facto editor of the NY Times)

https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1498023539156275200

[CountValentine]

2016-2020

You need to separate the rhetoric.

[drosenberg88429]

what's the difference?  even if true that the media has played a bigger role in this war the principal remains the same

It's not about the media. It's about the sheep that follow them and bleat loudly on command. Foreign policy shouldn't necessarily be formulated by the most vocal herd member. They're too easy to manipulate.

[CountValentine]

Nicole Hannah Jones (the de-facto editor of the NY Times)

https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1498023539156275200

What "us" is he talking about? The melting pot US?

[davidd75]

Is directly military intervening in Ukraine more likely to lead to or away from WW3?

so the Ukrainian civilians should be continued to be butchered? what's the alternative? I guess we can watch in horror or we can get use more force on a gradual basis

[davidd75]

Of course that's true. But I don't get to use my countries resources and sacrifice my countrymen's lives for my personal agendas, as compelling as they may be. It needs to serve a greater good for the benefits to our country and society to outweigh the costs.

this war though is not a personal agenda; I think there is an argument to be made that saving hundreds if not soon to be thousands of civilian lives and stopping a madman from territorial annexation is a greater good....

[drosenberg88429]

so the Ukrainian civilians should be continued to be butchered? what's the alternative? I guess we can watch in horror or we can get use more force on a gradual basis

If it's them being butchered or them and us being butchered, what is the correct governmental response? The better part of valor is discretion. Again, there's a reason why rational and emotional are considered antonyms.

[CountValentine]

so the Ukrainian civilians should be continued to be butchered? what's the alternative? I guess we can watch in horror or we can get use more force on a gradual basis

When we bombed Iraq civilians were killed. Were you outraged then? These things are not that simple.

[davidd75]

It's not about the media. It's about the sheep that follow them and bleat loudly on command. Foreign policy shouldn't necessarily be formulated by the most vocal herd member. They're too easy to manipulate.

right take out the media and just analyze this madman's actions and the butchering of innocent lives

[davidd75]

If it's them being butchered or them and us being butchered, what is the correct governmental response? The better part of valor is discretion. Again, there's a reason why rational and emotional are considered antonyms.

if a Nato country was attacked it would be them and us and according to this logic we should never get involved

[gozalim]

Enough people here have family and close friends and classmates living in Ukraine

[davidd75]

When we bombed Iraq civilians were killed. Were you outraged then? These things are not that simple.

That I think we all agree is different.  Responding to aggressive dictatorships countries and the unfortunate innocent casualties thereof is different from a madman's unprovoked bombardment of innocent civilians

[CountValentine]

right take out the media and just analyze this madman's actions and the butchering of innocent lives

If you take the media out of it then so far this war is not even a 5 on a 1 to 10 scale.

[CountValentine]

That I think we all agree is different.  Responding to aggressive dictatorships countries and the unfortunate innocent casualties thereof is different from a madman's unprovoked bombardment of innocent civilians

Going to guess to the innocent civilians that died it made no difference to them.
It would be great if the US/West had the resources to stop all atrocities, but we don't.

[drosenberg88429]

if a Nato country was attacked it would be them and us and according to this logic we should never get involved

NATO is us. That's exactly what we were explaining. Glad we got to that understanding of the difference the lines make.

[yesitsme]

https://twitter.com/TheBelaaz/status/1499646338870435842