Chaim Walder dies

[aygart]

He asked for my minimal threshold.
We are going way off topic... point us to be productive, not to answer everyone questions...

My point is that we are not allowed to publicize allegations that have not been verified. Period.  And the reason is not because we have to protect abusers C"V. The reason is to protect people from false allegations.

These are not the guidelines of Halacha. Sanei shumanei and Kala dlo pasik are given significant weight.

[LNS]

He asked for my minimal threshold.
We are going way off topic... point us to be productive, not to answer everyone questions...

My point is that we are not allowed to publicize allegations that have not been verified. Period.  And the reason is not because we have to protect abusers C"V. The reason is to protect people from false allegations.

i guess many here are really not familiar with AT
there are many things about him that are well known for many years and are obvious to people to who have ever met him
you hearing them for the first time doesn't make them any less credible

there are numerous people out there like this unfortunately that a lot of people are aware about and there is just no talk about it

CW rocked the boat so the easiest targets thereafter will obviously be all these people right at the surface which is why your suddenly hearing about it now

[Yehuda57]

D) again, a single tweet

You keep saying this and it's just not true. It's a tweet about multiple accusations which were corroborated by an admission to behavior which is simply impossible to explain any other way, no matter how the clip was edited.

I don’t know what he sounds like, is this verified to be him ?

Enough people do. If it wasn't, he would be screaming from the hilltops "that's not me!" As he would if the clip was edited in a way that incriminated him falsely.

[YitzyS]

I think the Jewish community needs a single, unified, and highly-respected organization that ANYONE can call and say, "hey, I heard that this person is an abuser," and get a response- either, "Yes, we have proven it to be true and are taking steps," "We have heard allegations and are working to confirm," "His name never came up before, but we will start investigating right away, please share your sources," or lastly, "We have heard but have confirmed those rumors to be not true."

That would make this complicated parsha so much simpler. Bad people will be stopped from doing any more harm, while good people will have an avenue at clearing their names.

[VacationLover]

These are not the guidelines of Halacha. Sanei shumanei and Kala dlo pasik are given significant weight.

I just asked my LOR and what I said earlier is correct.

I guess everyone should ask their LOR regarding Halacha and ethical questions.

[VacationLover]

I think the Jewish community needs a single, unified, and highly-respected organization that ANYONE can call and say, "hey, I heard that this person is an abuser," and get a response- either, "Yes, we have proven it to be true and are taking steps," "We have heard allegations and are working to confirm," "His name never came up before, but we will start investigating right away, please share your sources," or lastly, "We have heard but have confirmed those rumors to be not true."

That would make this complicated parsha so much simpler. Bad people will be stopped from doing any more harm, while good people will have an avenue at clearing their names.

Yes!
Maybe Amudim should vouch for it or create it.

[Yehuda57]

I think the Jewish community needs a single, unified, and highly-respected organization.

Sad LOL

[LNS]

I think the Jewish community needs a single, unified, and highly-respected organization that ANYONE can call and say, "hey, I heard that this person is an abuser," and get a response- either, "Yes, we have proven it to be true and are taking steps," "We have heard allegations and are working to confirm," "His name never came up before, but we will start investigating right away, please share your sources," or lastly, "We have heard but have confirmed those rumors to be not true."

That would make this complicated parsha so much simpler. Bad people will be stopped from doing any more harm, while good people will have an avenue at clearing their names.

i think the bigger issue is the taking steps part
what will this organization do once they have the information and it is found to be true?
I believe on some level amudim and others are already doing this but the challenge comes after

[S209]

I think the Jewish community needs a single, unified, and highly-respected organization that ANYONE can call and say, "hey, I heard that this person is an abuser," and get a response- either, "Yes, we have proven it to be true and are taking steps," "We have heard allegations and are working to confirm," "His name never came up before, but we will start investigating right away, please share your sources," or lastly, "We have heard but have confirmed those rumors to be not true."

That would make this complicated parsha so much simpler. Bad people will be stopped from doing any more harm, while good people will have an avenue at clearing their names.

This sounds great.

Also, what about while these investigations take place? Do we just stand by and allow more children’s lives to potentially get ruined? What about Lo Saamod? Do we have a chiyuv to intervene in some way? Do we warn families to stay away pending further information?

[Yehudaa]

I think the Jewish community needs a single, unified, and highly-respected organization

R' Ahron Lopiansky suggests something similar:

https://mishpacha.com/for-this-we-weep/

[TimT]

Also, what about while these investigations take place? Do we just stand by and allow more children’s lives to potentially get ruined? What about Lo Saamod? Do we have a chiyuv to intervene in some way? Do we warn families to stay away pending further information?

Once there’s accusations it must be made public to warn other potential victims. But by going public the accused is now destroyed. That’s just life.

[AsherO]

In all fairness, the whole discussion is taking place in this thread. Telling someone they need to post in a different thread because you disagree with their opinions is a cop out.

In all fairness there was more than my disagreement as reason to send him to the other thread.

Ignoring my arguments (and making it sound like I sent him to the other thread just because I disagree with him) just because you disagree with me is what you’re calling a cop out, so קשוט עצמך תחילה

[LNS]

This sounds great.

Also, what about while these investigations take place? Do we just stand by and allow more children’s lives to potentially get ruined? What about Lo Saamod? Do we have a chiyuv to intervene in some way? Do we warn families to stay away pending further information?

which is why i think it has been slow in coming
not for any other reason then no one knows that correct way to navigate it

i also wonder how many people get falsely accused ... there are so many things that need to line up and cause suspicion

[avromie7]

Source? And as has been asked a million times, how do you know to what extent we should err on the side of protecting potentially falsely accused people vs. protecting vulnerable children? Who says which side we should lend more credence to?

I’m not saying it’s our job to cancel-culture anyone. But why do you always err to one side?

The same should be asked about you taking the opposite extreme.

I agree with @YitzyS that his open admission to this does tend to make me believe it’s more likely he’s willing to work towards teshuva and help bring closure to victims, but I’m far from convinced.

The fact that he said a name shows there likely isn't a laundry list of victims IMO.

The burden of proof would be on him to show that that’s so.

I'm not sure I agree with your statement, but either way you seem fully ok with throwing him to the dogs before he even has such a chance.

As to those somehow interpreting his actions to have been done as a teen: that was one (admirable?) pretzel-twist to try and rationalize what he was admitting to. There’s no reason to believe it was done as anything but a full fledged adult, and indeed those were the rumors I grew up hearing (namely, don’t hang around near him unsupervised).

I'm not a rabbi, so CMIIW, but shouldn't the minimum requirement for dan lekaf zechus be that if there is another logical explanation we should not assume the worst? Maybe you know more than the rest of us, but for the rest if us there is no indication that it happened as an adult.

[avromie7]

In all fairness there was more than my disagreement as reason to send him to the other thread.

Ignoring my arguments (and making it sound like I sent him to the other thread just because I disagree with him) just because you disagree with me is what you’re calling a cop out, so קשוט עצמך תחילה

I followed the conversation. Excuses not withstanding, it's wrong to send him to the other thread when the discussion is happening here.

[nucheiner]

R' Ahron Lopiansky suggests something similar:

Keep praying 3x day השיבה שופטינו . Until then keep praying!

Its worth trying to set up, til its ____איינער פון, and that group discredits the whole thing. As Rabbi Elefant said by the Agudah convention (and was quoted by Tzvi Gluck in his recent communication) there needs to be zero tolerance, excuses, brushing off. Meaning, no public figure should involve himself in trying to brush anything, no matter what (but the family! The yeshiva! Bittul Torah!) Once this is the standard then perhaps an independent body could gain and maintain credence.

[VacationLover]

there needs to be zero tolerance, excuses, brushing off.

Source?
Is that for unverified claims?
For a verified claim It is obvious.

Does this mean to trust just about any claim?

[AsherO]

I followed the conversation. Excuses not withstanding, it's wrong to send him to the other thread when the discussion is happening here.

This thread has become the de facto CSA master thread. We aren’t the ones releasing information, just discussing information people posted in the interest of unearthing abuse where it exists, protecting our community, and giving a voice to survivors. Those causes are agreeable objectives that most here (perhaps even you and VL can agree upon.

If you want to discuss the objective merits of publishing information in general in such cases, there’s a thread for that. If you want to discuss the merits of allegations against CW or TA, or any other such allegations that might be posted in this thread, go right ahead, but people will tell you that just because you didn’t hear about it, the “single tweet” isn’t the entire story. Either way, this isn’t the topic for the objective/general discussion about naming names in such situation, and derails from the common 3 objectives I outlined before.

[Yehuda57]

R' Ahron Lopiansky suggests something similar:

As has been mentioned, he was saying each community would need one, and how difficult it would be to set up.

[Something Fishy]

I think the Jewish community needs a single, unified, and highly-respected organization that ANYONE can call and say, "hey, I heard that this person is an abuser," and get a response- either, "Yes, we have proven it to be true and are taking steps," "We have heard allegations and are working to confirm," "His name never came up before, but we will start investigating right away, please share your sources," or lastly, "We have heard but have confirmed those rumors to be not true."

That would make this complicated parsha so much simpler. Bad people will be stopped from doing any more harm, while good people will have an avenue at clearing their names.

While we're at it, I'll take a pony too.