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I created an account to say this

I am a survivor of abuse

I tried to type up a longer, more detailed post but it got too hard. The bottom line is the following

There's no such thing as universal feelings, reactions, desires, needs that all victims share. Each one is an individual who suffered alone and carries the unique scars that stay with them and each one will react to future situations in life in their own way.

Therefore, there is no single response to abuse that will leave all victims feeling safe, secure, validated, supported, closure and everything else all the well meaning people here want to give them.

However, I think there is a single response that would leave all victims feeling further pain and trauma and that is "It can't be."

Rabbi Shimon Russell - How to Safeguard and Protect our Children

https://youtu.be/fefqSvXf0JI


« Last edited by Yehuda57 on January 12, 2022, 05:44:00 PM »

Author Topic: Chaim Walder dies  (Read 68245 times)

Offline AsherO

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1320 on: January 31, 2022, 01:51:53 PM »
Talk to educators. Kids know a lot. I agree it is graphic, which is why I thought 15 and older (and was excluding my soon to be 14 y/o son.

Some thoughts, not 100% sure about any of these, just musing:

1. It depends on the child, not just their age, but maturity level and the strength to digest something so intense and get the right message without being harmed by it.
2. This particular piece might be more pertinent to girls than boys, once again Iím not sure.
3. This might be a question for a mashpia. Generally speaking, I think survivors should be a part of the discussion about community response to CSA. Along with Rabonnim, therapists, leaders, educators, and askonim. The latter parties bring a certain objectivity to things, and that includes when/what/how to tell children.
4. Youíre giving me anxiety about bezĒh parenting teenagers one day, but one canít begin preparing early enough. Letís hope Iím wiser and have more bitachon when that time comes.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1321 on: January 31, 2022, 02:05:31 PM »
I am thinking that I should show this to my kids, not sure from what age. What are others thinking about this?

My oldest is 10, no way I'm showing this to her. But the educational points made have been spoken about and reinforced when we spoke about cw specifically. Aside from it being graphic, terms like "he raped me" aren't going to be that helpful to her.

I'm not an educator nor expert and would appreciate an expert chiming in, but I feel this may terrify her more than educate her. As much as you want a child to know that anyone is capable of doing bad things, and what to do in that situation, you wouldn't want a child to be fearful of every person they meet, nor for them to be exposed to descriptions of negative sexual experiences, especially rape, before they are educated about the positive side of it. Yes, that means age appropriate education on the holy and positive aspects of physical relationships should become the norm, and not the taboo source of shame it is now.
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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1322 on: January 31, 2022, 02:51:53 PM »
i think its important to talk to your kids about this but i don't think suddenly giving them this to read is the way
in order for them to actually understand and internalize what you are trying to tell them you need to be constantly mentioning this from when they are young in various settings or situations sometimes casually and sometimes firmly
just like the opposite way of thinking is slow and constant throughout their years this needs to be the same way
of course sometimes something major happens and needs to be discussed right away but i believe the way they really benefit is if this is something that is constantly spoken about openly at all ages (on their level) and stages of life

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1323 on: January 31, 2022, 04:17:46 PM »
My oldest is 10, no way I'm showing this to her. But the educational points made have been spoken about and reinforced when we spoke about cw specifically. Aside from it being graphic, terms like "he raped me" aren't going to be that helpful to her.

I'm not an educator nor expert and would appreciate an expert chiming in, but I feel this may terrify her more than educate her. As much as you want a child to know that anyone is capable of doing bad things, and what to do in that situation, you wouldn't want a child to be fearful of every person they meet, nor for them to be exposed to descriptions of negative sexual experiences, especially rape, before they are educated about the positive side of it. Yes, that means age appropriate education on the holy and positive aspects of physical relationships should become the norm, and not the taboo source of shame it is now.

1. Not all 10 year old girls are equal (also someone who just turned 10 and someone who will turn 11 in a couple of months are both referred to as 10 year olds). Some might have even begun early stages of puberty.

2. A 10 year old girl Ina house with older sisters is different than a 10 year old girl who's the oldest child.

3. I fully agree that it is very graphic and not something I would WANT my child exposed to. But given the realities of life in today's day and and age of how fast things circulate and resurface, I would rather it be introduced by myself in a controlled manner and making sure the child knows the can and should come to me with any questions, rather than have to go elsewhere.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline AsherO

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1324 on: January 31, 2022, 04:30:23 PM »
3. I fully agree that it is very graphic and not something I would WANT my child exposed to. But given the realities of life in today's day and and age of how fast things circulate and resurface, I would rather it be introduced by myself in a controlled manner and making sure the child knows the can and should come to me with any questions, rather than have to go elsewhere.

Have you considered talking about it and sharing relevant points without giving over the entire thing?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1325 on: January 31, 2022, 04:34:47 PM »
Have you considered talking about it and sharing relevant points without giving over the entire thing?

Yes. I posted here to solicit additional opinions and approaches, before I decide what and how to act.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1326 on: January 31, 2022, 04:51:43 PM »
Yes. I posted here to solicit additional opinions and approaches, before I decide what and how to act.

if this is a topic that you never discussed, rarely touched on or were always vague about i think reading this will just scare her more then anything else

 

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1327 on: January 31, 2022, 06:30:54 PM »
3. I fully agree that it is very graphic and not something I would WANT my child exposed to. But given the realities of life in today's day and and age of how fast things circulate and resurface, I would rather it be introduced by myself in a controlled manner and making sure the child knows the can and should come to me with any questions, rather than have to go elsewhere.

I think this can be accomplished with a less explicit discussion.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1328 on: January 31, 2022, 07:25:52 PM »
I think this can be accomplished with a less explicit discussion.

More, I think it *needs* to be done less graphicly for the reasons stated which
1.
2.
3.
Did not refute or address.

At the very least, I'd speak to a professional before showing that to a teenager, let alone a 10 year old.
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Offline yakov116

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1329 on: February 01, 2022, 09:24:12 AM »
I think the shuir by Rabbi Russle (If that is his name) is worth watching. Anyone can post the link, I lost it (It was posted upthread).
Money talks...mine says goodbye!

Offline AsherO

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1330 on: February 01, 2022, 09:25:56 AM »
I think the shuir by Rabbi Russle (If that is his name) is worth watching. Anyone can post the link, I lost it (It was posted upthread).

@yakov116 here you go:

leaving the community may be the only way that they can deal with the immense pain and trauma that they experienced. Rabbi Russell's Manchester speech on abuse was eye opening.
Here is a link to a related shiur on the topic of "Why Are So Many Teenagers Struggling in Today's Generation? What We Can Do to Help Them?" presented last week by Rabbi Russell & Rabbi YY. (not necessary abuse discussed in this thread but some key thoughts on what constitutes trauma and its the impact on children) 
https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=172700


I believe there was another one as well.
 
ETA:
watch:

it's aa very important 2 hrs, I think linked to elsewhere in this thread as well. in the middle somewhere, he explains pretty well what damage is done

Offline yakov116

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1331 on: February 01, 2022, 09:36:20 AM »
I was thinking of
Money talks...mine says goodbye!

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1332 on: February 01, 2022, 06:00:12 PM »
@ExGingi
It seems like you are trying to use this powerful letter as a way to discuss this issue with your children. I personally think that it's very overwhelming (even for an adult!) and does not discuss anything practical that the child will gain, other then the knowledge that anyone can do evil. What it may do is traumatize them, without learning about "small things" like an improper touch etc.
In addition, you will need to translate and explain the following terms and concepts to your children:
Rape
Excitement of Kalla before her wedding
Becoming pregnant
Mikva night
Hotel in Ramat Gan
Beis Yaakov
Rabbis

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1333 on: February 01, 2022, 06:51:10 PM »
My thoughts was that showing that for a 10 yr old or even older is in a way making her too a victim of CW.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1334 on: February 01, 2022, 08:03:48 PM »
Rabbis

I donít look forward to having to explain this to my 10-year-oldÖ

Offline AsherO

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1335 on: February 01, 2022, 08:04:23 PM »
My thoughts was that showing that for a 10 yr old or even older is in a way unnecessarily making her too a victim of CW.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1336 on: February 27, 2022, 10:44:11 AM »


Not one person was called out for the numerous posts about where a rabbi was on a certain day at a certain time. I guess those posts are germane to this thread.  ::)

You're right; it really belongs in this thread. (Google it)

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1338 on: March 04, 2022, 10:08:04 AM »
(Google it)
OUCH!
Is this another case of looking the other way?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #1339 on: March 04, 2022, 03:01:32 PM »
Is this another case of looking the other way?

I don't know it it was related to these allegations, but he was removed from his position by the place he worked at a while back. There are several others who claim the title Chief Rabbi of Ukraine.