Topic Wiki

I created an account to say this

I am a survivor of abuse

I tried to type up a longer, more detailed post but it got too hard. The bottom line is the following

There's no such thing as universal feelings, reactions, desires, needs that all victims share. Each one is an individual who suffered alone and carries the unique scars that stay with them and each one will react to future situations in life in their own way.

Therefore, there is no single response to abuse that will leave all victims feeling safe, secure, validated, supported, closure and everything else all the well meaning people here want to give them.

However, I think there is a single response that would leave all victims feeling further pain and trauma and that is "It can't be."

Rabbi Shimon Russell - How to Safeguard and Protect our Children

https://youtu.be/fefqSvXf0JI


« Last edited by Yehuda57 on January 12, 2022, 05:44:00 PM »

Author Topic: Chaim Walder dies  (Read 126007 times)

Offline JACKBLUE

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2409
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #200 on: December 28, 2021, 09:51:45 AM »
Something about George Soros and 5G I think?
UPS method?

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18408
  • Total likes: 14582
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #201 on: December 28, 2021, 10:09:19 AM »
I posted it for the timeline really but you can find others https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/haredi-author-chaim-walder-dropped-from-publisher-amid-rape-allegations-685462/amp
Okay I didn't realize that was your point. That can be seen simply from the link.
That it was 2 days instead of one?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline VacationLover

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2014
  • Posts: 1674
  • Total likes: 244
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #202 on: December 28, 2021, 10:53:48 AM »
Facts
- No accusations in court (at least publicly)
- only 1 Beis Din announced the investigation
- accusations going back 20 years and no one said anything publicly until recently
- anti Chareidy media started the public campaign.
- YS 'says' he has evidence that this is a conspiracy.
- button line we lost a soul from a media campaign "before proving guilty".
- and last fact, (social) media has the ability to literally kill people.

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 5036
  • Total likes: 6187
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #203 on: December 28, 2021, 11:07:53 AM »
Facts
- No accusations in court (at least publicly)
- only 1 Beis Din announced the investigation
- accusations going back 20 years and no one said anything publicly until recently
- anti Chareidy media started the public campaign.
- YS 'says' he has evidence that this is a conspiracy.
- button line we lost a soul from a media campaign "before proving guilty".
- and last fact, (social) media has the ability to literally kill people.
Counter analysis of the facts:

- the victims were too scared/ashamed to come forward for 20 years
- a reputable Beis Din announced the investigation

Offline yzj

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 645
  • Total likes: 373
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: usa
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #204 on: December 28, 2021, 11:23:11 AM »
Facts
- No accusations in court (at least publicly)
- only 1 Beis Din announced the investigation
- accusations going back 20 years and no one said anything publicly until recently
- anti Chareidy media started the public campaign.
- YS 'says' he has evidence that this is a conspiracy.
- button line we lost a soul from a media campaign "before proving guilty".
- and last fact, (social) media has the ability to literally kill people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmuel_Eliyahu

If the Wiki is to be believed HaRav Shmuel Eliyahu appears to be quite a controversial person. He has supposedly called for carpet bombing the Palestinians, hanging terrorists kids . and has been involved in a theory that asserts that the pope and vatican are secretly training hezbolla to wipe out the Jews.

Rav Silman does have extensive credibility. He was named in the letter but did he merely say to stop reading the books or did he concur with Rav Eliyahu’s Beis Din?

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 2596
  • Total likes: 294
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #205 on: December 28, 2021, 11:23:26 AM »
הפסיכיאטר ד''ר אילן רבינוביץ שטיפל בולדר: ''לצערי הרב הוא סירב לעצתי להופיע בפני בית הדין ולקחת אחריות

https://news.walla.co.il/item/3479453

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 2596
  • Total likes: 294
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #206 on: December 28, 2021, 11:24:37 AM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmuel_Eliyahu

If the Wiki is to be believed HaRav Shmuel Eliyahu appears to be quite a controversial person. He has supposedly called for carpet bombing the Palestinians, hanging terrorists kids . and has been involved in a theory that asserts that the pope and vatican are secretly training hezbolla to wipe out the Jews.

Rav Silman does have extensive credibility. He was named in the letter but did he merely say to stop reading the books or did he concur with Rav Eliyahu’s Beis Din?

But in CW suicide note he names Rav Silman

Offline JoeyShmoe

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 1286
  • Total likes: 254
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #207 on: December 28, 2021, 11:28:19 AM »
But in supposed CW suicide note he names Rav Silman
FTFY
DDF A-Z Link Extension
Chrome
Firefox
Info

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 2596
  • Total likes: 294
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #208 on: December 28, 2021, 11:33:24 AM »
Facts vs Counter analysis

- No accusations in court (at least publicly)
the judicial process works slow as they need to gather evedence.

- only 1 Beis Din announced the investigation
If a Beis din is trustworthy we don't need more than one.

- accusations going back 20 years and no one said anything publicly until recently
This is standard for abuse, unfortunately.

- anti Chareidy media started the public campaign.
Have you ever seen Chardi media break an abuse story?

- YS 'says' he has evidence that this is a conspiracy.
Seeing is believing, for now, we have a voice note from a store owner and badchen

- button line we lost a soul from a media campaign "before proving guilty".
That's correct. but how are you suggest we handle accusations differently?

- and last fact, (social) media has the ability to literally kill people.
True

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5204
  • Total likes: 14884
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #209 on: December 28, 2021, 11:37:18 AM »
Tried 

I read your post and it is extremely emotional and well put. It seems like many, like you, are not just caught up in the whole did he do it or not question, but also in how to handle either situation, both being extremely grave.
 
Can we stop and appreciate for one second that there are countless victims of abuse, not just of Chaim Walder, but of people just like him, who are very much alive and reading what we say? 
These aren't just "some guys" or "some girls", they are our brothers and sisters, sons and daughters. Bnei Avraham, Yitzchak, v'Yaakov, Sarah, Rivkah, Rochel v'Leah. The Eibishter's very own children, the work of His holy hands, the breath of His air. 

Abused by men and women who were just like Chaim Walder, people who are leaders and respected by the thousands of children and adults they have influenced. 

People who have undoubtedly made the lives of many children and adults better. People who used that very standing to manipulate the emotions of children in Chareidi society, a society that was ultra focused on wrong and right, and respect for its rabbis and leaders. They used those do as they wished with their victims, with no consideration to their feelings, and preyed on victims knowing the social hierarchy would prevent the victims from coming forward. 

There are no religious people that aren't influenced on some level by abuse. If it's not you, and you don't know anyone personally who was abused, I promise you someone you are close to was abused and you just don't know about it. Imagine what they feel as they see other victims watch their abuser being lauded and praised for writing beautiful, heart rendering stories, being commended for amazing parenting advice, and being thanked for influencing and advancing important public issues. Imagine the pain on his victims and other victims seeing their abuser being described as "a special man". Do you think that makes these precious individuals feel safe? Loved? Cared for? Trusted? Will this person want to come forward to let people know about the abuse and prevent the next child from getting harmed, or will they suffer in silence knowing that they will be shamed and shunned, while the accused gets honored and lauded?

Any beautiful deeds he may have done, as wonderful as they may be, can't erase the tremendous harm that he did. Even if the bad doesn't wash out the good just as the good doesn't excuse the bad, imagine the pain of victims seeing the man himself being pedestaled, not just his positive work.

Trust me on this: Even if you yourself refrain from standing up for victims to prop up their abusers while their tortured hearts and bodies remain frozen and frigid, and their families are suffering not knowing why the once-warm body is now merely a husk of its former self, there will be plenty of volunteers to pick up the mantle and continue to uphold his reputation. That being the case, I think we can allow ourselves to not say hurtful things that will increase the pain and suffering of abuse victims, and cause them to remain in hiding and not come forward to perpetuate the cycle of abuse. What do you think?

To all the victims who may be reading this, we hear you. We see you. We love you. We care for you.

We believe you.

Thank you for all the courage that you have and will show.

***
I hesitate to post this because I don't want this format to come across as mocking OP, yet I believe the format lends itself to being understood better. I think it is important to add that while I'm no expert in the matter, from what I've read, abusers often use the threat of suicide to silence their victims. Imagine someone considering coming forward with their story watching this story unfold!

Another point, whenever these stories come out I go back to this article which I think is beautifully put.
https://twitter.com/JMMusings/status/1475804853314203649

Though this case may be different, as the nature of his work calls into question whether it is still "good" in light of his actions, or does the bad reveal the supposed good to not be so. That's above my pay grade.

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8879
  • Total likes: 4046
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #210 on: December 28, 2021, 11:39:35 AM »
Facts
- No accusations in court (at least publicly)

22 accusers in R' SE beit din, including several victims. Should they go to court first?

Quote
- only 1 Beis Din announced the investigation

Is that a defense for CW or a knock against other batei dinim? If other BD don't believe he is an abuser, they should investigate and clear his name. Cats already out of the bag to ignore.

Quote
- accusations going back 20 years and no one said anything publicly until recently

Good point, must be the first time that sexual abuse has ever been covered up

Quote
- anti Chareidy media started the public campaign.

R' SE has corroborated the complaints on his own before coming out against

Quote
- YS 'says' he has evidence that this is a conspiracy.

Then he should provide the evidence. PUOSU

Quote
- button line we lost a soul from a media campaign "before proving guilty".

CW is the sole person responsible for taking his own life. If he wanted to prove himself innocent he had/would have the opportunity.

Quote
- and last fact, (social) media has the ability to literally kill people.

So does a staircase and a toaster
Visibly Jewish

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8879
  • Total likes: 4046
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #211 on: December 28, 2021, 11:48:48 AM »
I promise you someone you are close to was abused and you just don't know about it. Imagine what they feel as they see other victims watch their abuser being lauded and praised for writing beautiful, heart rendering stories, being commended for amazing parenting advice, and being thanked for influencing and advancing important public issues. Imagine the pain on his victims and other victims seeing their abuser being described as "a special man". Do you think that makes these precious individuals feel safe? Loved? Cared for? Trusted? Will this person want to come forward to let people know about the abuse and prevent the next child from getting harmed, or will they suffer in silence knowing that they will be shamed and shunned, while the accused gets honored and lauded?

A friend of mine suffered like this. Days before he passed he was telling someone how much trauma he had from the cover up and enablers, it affected him as much, if not more than the abuse itself.
Visibly Jewish

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4307
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #212 on: December 28, 2021, 11:53:07 AM »
A friend of mine suffered like this. Days before he passed he was telling someone how much trauma he had from the cover up and enablers, it affected him as much, if not more than the abuse itself.
on behalf of all those concerned for the lethal power of social media, I will assume that this friend did not pass of old age. (not asking for details)

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8879
  • Total likes: 4046
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #213 on: December 28, 2021, 11:57:52 AM »
Okay I didn't realize that was your point. That can be seen simply from the link.
That it was 2 days instead of one?

Perhaps I am confused. I understood you were asking if CW was canceled before any rabbis investigated. It seems like he was temporarily canceled by R' Eliyahu when the allegations surfaced, and a few days later R' SE spoke with many victims and verified it.
Visibly Jewish

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31011
  • Total likes: 7974
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #214 on: December 28, 2021, 12:04:29 PM »
A friend of mine suffered like this. Days before he passed he was telling someone how much trauma he had from the cover up and enablers, it affected him as much, if not more than the abuse itself.

This is well known, that the pain of not being believed (or worse, silenced/denied/marginalized/shunned) is more destructive than the abuse itself. Instead of it just being one abuser in the persons life, all these other people (who the survivor hoped were upstanding people) become accessories/enablers.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline VacationLover

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2014
  • Posts: 1674
  • Total likes: 244
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #215 on: December 28, 2021, 12:40:05 PM »
On the contrary, YS is the distributer of CW books in the USA, so his voice note may be extremely biased

Offline YitzyS

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 5682
  • Total likes: 13835
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #216 on: December 28, 2021, 12:41:39 PM »
On the contrary, YS is the distributer of CW books in the USA, so his voice note may be extremely biased
You know how much MORE you can charge for a book after distributers take them off shelves?

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31011
  • Total likes: 7974
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #217 on: December 28, 2021, 12:45:46 PM »
On the contrary, YS is the distributer of CW books in the USA, so his voice note may be extremely biased

Funny that he doesn't disclose that at all. His voice note starts off with the fact that he didn't know CW before. Damning IMHO and totally discredits (or at least grossly discounts) his entire VN).
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline VacationLover

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2014
  • Posts: 1674
  • Total likes: 244
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #218 on: December 28, 2021, 12:46:36 PM »
You know how much MORE you can charge for a book after distributers take them off shelves?
If he doesn't try to clear his name, no one will buy the books...

Anyways, I leave those issues for the BD and courts to decide and confirm allegations. I know YS personally and I doubt he is making this up. But to be fair, after seeing the above I am more skeptical.
Time will tell.

Offline YitzyS

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 5682
  • Total likes: 13835
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #219 on: December 28, 2021, 12:51:07 PM »
Funny that he doesn't disclose that at all. His voice note starts off with the fact that he didn't know CW before. Damning IMHO and totally discredits (or at least grossly discounts) his entire VN).
Perhaps, but YS distributes stuff for hundreds, maybe even thousands, of people. I suspect that the voicenote he made was to an individual who perhaps knew him and his business connections, and it just got forwarded to the public.