Chaim Walder dies

[TimT]

I guess you can start with the ones from the last 12-24 months.

I’m listening. How ? By most crimes the onus is on the accuser to prove a crime has been committed & the accused is assumed innocent until proven guilty. By such crimes we assume the accused is automatically guilty until he can prove his innocence, which is literally impossible.

Depends if there's proof.

The vast majority of these cases there’s no proof.

[shimino1]

I haven't (yet) seen anyone gloating about his death or saying he deserved to die.

I wish I lived in your world.... 

[yuneeq]

I’m listening. How ? By most crimes the onus is on the accuser to prove a crime has been committed & the accused is assumed innocent until proven guilty. By such crimes we assume the accused is automatically guilty until he can prove his innocence, which is literally impossible.

Step 1. Don't have 22 people testify against you, including several victims.

[TimT]

Step 1. Don't have 22 people testify against you, including several victims.

I’m not referring to this case specifically. I can bring you dozens of cases involving 1 allegation.
My point is once its out there, you’re screwed.

[Dan]

The vast majority of these cases there’s no proof.

Exactly why there is a Justice Kavanaugh today.
You can be certain that if 22 credible people showed up to testify that there would not be.

[TimT]

Exactly why there is a Justice Kavanaugh today.
You can be certain that if 22 credible people showed up to testify that there would not be.

He’d be president.

[sddd]

im confused about the books. so if he did sincere tshuva it would then be okay to read his books? are they objectionable per se, or is shunning the books strictly a way of sending a message not to condone what he allegedly did

[YitzyS]

What about if they find out about the author later in life?

Are you scarred by having read his books? Finding out something later in life is not the most impactful thing.

Rav Mattisyahu Solomon writes a similar thing about music. If one does not know that the source of a song is non-Jewish, it won't adversely effect them. But if they know while they are listening that it's a non-Jewish song, it will have a negative impact on them.

[dasmo801]

Are you scarred by having read his books? Finding out something later in life is not the most impactful thing.

Rav Mattisyahu Solomon writes a similar thing about music. If one does not know that the source of a song is non-Jewish, it won't adversely effect them. But if they know while they are listening that it's a non-Jewish song, it will have a negative impact on them.

I don't think my kids will be scarred from reading his books. I do think they will troubled and confused by why I allowed them to read books written by an alleged rasha.

[flyingace]

My two cents... If a person guilty of such crimes is a "regular" person who sinned, then perhaps it's OK to read his books; anyone who reads non-Jewish books is not vetting the author's morals, either. IF he's a psychopathic monster- no way am I or my kids going to read them. How should we view such people, in general?
Makes sense or not?

[momo]

https://vinnews.com/2021/12/28/rav-shmuel-eliyahu-the-moment-walder-died-dozens-of-girls-were-saved/
Audio interview for those that understand Hebrew.

[YitzyS]

I don't think my kids will be scarred from reading his books. I do think they will troubled and confused by why I allowed them to read books written by an alleged rasha.

I think it would depend on what the investigation turns up. If botei din declare that he was guilty of destroying lives, yes, it would be hard to justify to kids why you let them read his books. But if investigations are inconclusive, it's much easier to have books written by 'colorful people'. In fact, many books, music, and other things we enjoy have a sullied history.

[TimT]

My two cents... If a person guilty of such crimes is a "regular" person who sinned, then perhaps it's OK to read his books; anyone who reads non-Jewish books is not vetting the author's morals, either. IF he's a psychopathic monster- no way am I or my kids going to read them. How should we view such people, in general?
Makes sense or not?

The one you think is a regular person can be the biggest

psychopathic monster

[WonderingYid]

im confused about the books. so if he did sincere tshuva it would then be okay to read his books? are they objectionable per se, or is shunning the books strictly a way of sending a message not to condone what he allegedly did

Define that. You cant ruin someone's life and then just get a get out of jail card.

[dealfinder11]

The abuse cases happen to those whose parents didn't talk to them in advance. Those who had talks with their parents about "the bees and the birds" and about urges and difficulties, are by far less likely to be victims of abuse.

I once had a lengthy conversation with someone whose job it is to deal with abuse victims in our communities.

She made it very clear that  the victims she deals with are overwhelmingly those who come from broken homes and are in a vulnerable state.

Unfortunately that is the same profile that the public is quick to discredit if they do say something. And that's in the rare scenario where they have both the courage to tell someone, and someone they feel they can tell.

[yzj]

By the way something I haven’t seen mentioned yet is that it is very often the victims who go on to become the next perpetrators. For all we know there is quite a good chance that even if Rav Eliyahu can be trusted and is accurately portraying things which is far from a given, Walder would likely have been the victim of more than just his yetzer hara. To say he isn’t going up to shomayim is quite presumptuous to say the least.

[TimT]

By the way something I haven’t seen mentioned yet is that it is very often the victims who go on to become the next perpetrators. For all we know there is quite a good chance that even if Rav Eliyahu can be trusted and is accurately portraying things which is far from a given, Walder would likely have been the victim of more than just his yetzer hara. To say he isn’t going up to shomayim is quite presumptuous to say the least.

1)Being a victim doesn’t excuse becoming a perpetrator.
2) Who said he isn’t going to שמים ? He’s in עולם האמת now. Hashem knows what he did/didn’t do.

[aygart]

I think it would depend on what the investigation turns up. If botei din declare that he was guilty of destroying lives, yes, it would be hard to justify to kids why you let them read his books. But if investigations are inconclusive, it's much easier to have books written by 'colorful people'. In fact, many books, music, and other things we enjoy have a sullied history.

There is at least one that already has

[aygart]

Are you scarred by having read his books? Finding out something later in life is not the most impactful thing.

Rav Mattisyahu Solomon writes a similar thing about music. If one does not know that the source of a song is non-Jewish, it won't adversely effect them. But if they know while they are listening that it's a non-Jewish song, it will have a negative impact on them.

The concern is not only when they are an adult. They can easily find out from a friend who sees the book or wants to borrow it. The concern is that it seems a mixed message to the children when they know their parents tolerated it. I hear the concern.

[yzj]

1)Being a victim doesn’t excuse becoming a perpetrator.
2) Who said he isn’t going to שמים ? He’s in עולם האמת now. Hashem knows what he did/didn’t do.

“Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu, chief rabbi of Tzfat, on Tuesday spoke about the suicide of author Chaim Walder, saying Walder "will not go to Heaven."

In an interview with Kan Reshet Bet, Rabbi Eliyahu said, "He will not go to Heaven at all. People like that do not go to Heaven. The suicide was predicable - in an attempt to silence the victims, he threatened to kill himself."