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I created an account to say this

I am a survivor of abuse

I tried to type up a longer, more detailed post but it got too hard. The bottom line is the following

There's no such thing as universal feelings, reactions, desires, needs that all victims share. Each one is an individual who suffered alone and carries the unique scars that stay with them and each one will react to future situations in life in their own way.

Therefore, there is no single response to abuse that will leave all victims feeling safe, secure, validated, supported, closure and everything else all the well meaning people here want to give them.

However, I think there is a single response that would leave all victims feeling further pain and trauma and that is "It can't be."

Rabbi Shimon Russell - How to Safeguard and Protect our Children

https://youtu.be/fefqSvXf0JI


« Last edited by Yehuda57 on January 12, 2022, 05:44:00 PM »

Author Topic: Chaim Walder dies  (Read 179286 times)

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #300 on: December 28, 2021, 07:35:24 PM »
The concern is not only when they are an adult. They can easily find out from a friend who sees the book or wants to borrow it. The concern is that it seems a mixed message to the children when they know their parents tolerated it. I hear the concern.

Depending on the age of the children, it will be a point of discussion now with friends. Some parents will have removed the books and told the children why. Do you really want that discussion to happen without being the one to control how it goes?

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #301 on: December 28, 2021, 07:50:27 PM »
המושג  שהתאבדות הוא בריחה ממצב קשה שמור לאלה שלא מאמינים בחיים שאחרי המוות.כל השאר מבינים שהוא קפץ מהמחבת אל תוך האש. אסור לנו להצדיק ולו במעט את האיסור שהוא עשה .אין לנו עניין לדבר על בן אדם שחטאה וכבר מת אבל אסור לנו להצדיק ולו במעט את האיסור שהוא עשה.ובפרט כשזה נעשה באופן מחושב  ותחת  חסות שיטה שכאילו מצדיקה  את האיסור.
 המאבד  עצמו לדעת נקראה רשע .נקודה.

The way this is written gives off the impression that the author feels the same way about anyone who commits suicide, and clearly has no mental health sensitivity, but that’s really for a separate topic.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #302 on: December 28, 2021, 08:14:37 PM »


I don't think such stories can happen if people know and keep the laws of yichud.

A bit off topic, but I was actually just thinking about the same thing....
People are discussing how to prevent such things, and regain people's trust in therapists etc.
Apparently not enough people realize that Yichud isn't only a prevention, but actually a transgression of its own!
If therapy between male/female is done without causing any Yichud, things are unlikely to advance in the wrong direction.
(Leaving the door open a crack? Have a secretary walk in randomly every once in a while? It may not be easy to avoid Yichud in such private/sensitive situations like therapy, but it's an Issur D'oiraisa)
Maybe an awareness campaign on the topic of Yichud can prevent the next horror.... Not just for adults, but teenagers too. (And maybe even younger than that)

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #303 on: December 28, 2021, 08:28:46 PM »
The Short Vort- CW - received via e-mail from Rabbi Ron Yitzchok Eisenman

The Short Vort
Good Morning!

Today is Tuesday the 24th of Teves 5782 and December 28th, 2021

CW
(Chaim Waldler)

I could have ignored it, as most are.
I could have sensationalized it as some are.
I could blame it on the people who asked me my opinion.
However, all of that would not be truthful.
As a person who has had the painful experiences of crying with victims of sexual abuse for two and half decades, I have decided I cannot remain silent.
I CANNOT BE SILENT when I think of a beloved friend who was brought up in the heart of a Chassidic community and is now an avowed atheist.
When I am contacted by women who were violated and are now emotionally scarred, I cannot be silent.
And when I see people I used to respect downplaying, minimizing, and –worst of all blaming the victims, I cannot be silent.
There is no code of silence when someone is screaming in pain.
When one is silent, they are engaging in complacency and complicity.
Iyov failed to scream out when we heard of the future pain to the Jewish people, and for that, he suffered.
So too, I must scream out in pain when I see the pain of two dozen individuals spanning over two decades.
I did not sleep the last two nights as the stories of young women and men, married women, boys and girls who sit in loneliness and fear fill my mind.
I tossed and turned as I thought about those who have no one to turn to, for no one will believe them.
I think about those victims who have, in some cases, suffered years of abuse at the hands of serial molesters.
They had (and often still have) no one to turn to.
They are shamed, scarred, stained, and humiliated.
And therefore, I must scream out at the case of CW.
At the outset, I admit that every case must be handled carefully and with sensitivity.
Obviously, a lone allegation made about a person whose reputation is unstained and the allegation stems from thirty years ago must be carefully fleshed out before taking it as a fact.
However, when you have dozens of boys, girls, married women, and single women who have testified in front of the Beis Din of Rav Shmuel Eliyahu about being victimized by CW, then we must not be silent.
Some of the allegations against CW are from over two decades ago, and some are as recent as six months ago.
The evidence, in this case, is overwhelming.
I don’t know of any Rav who has spoken in defense of CW.
If anything, it seems that it was an open secret that was waiting to blow up.
Here are the facts:
Rav Shmuel Eliyahu, Chief Rav of Tzfas, went personally and spoke privately to CW and pleaded with him to stop his pernicious ways. CW responded with intimidation and threats.
The Gaon HaRav Yehudah Moshe Silman – the head of the most respected Beis Din in Israel, the Beis Din of Rav Nissim Karelitz Zt”L, teamed up with Rav Eliyahu, and he also pleaded with CW to cease and desist. His pleas fell on deaf ears.
In his suicide note, CW named both Rav Eliyahu and Rav Silman and called them to a Din Torah in heaven for their allegations against him.
CW was summoned to attend the proceedings against him in the Beis Din of Rav Eliyahu and declined.
CW chose to go straight to the heavenly Beis Din with his own gun.
Both Rav Silman and Rav Eliyahu have issued public halachik decisions that one should not read or possess in their home books authored by a serial predator and destroyer of lives.
I spoke to one of the major Dayanim here in America (I did not ask permission to use his name). He, too, was emphatic that one should sanitize one’s house from the pernicious, destructive, and poisonous works of a serial rapist.
I spoke this morning to my good friend and amazing Seforim Store owner, Mr. Berman from Z.Berman Books here in Passaic.
He has informed me that CW’s books will no longer be sold here in Passaic.

I stress that I am following in the path of those greater than I, namely, Rav Silman (almost 80 years old and a great Talmid Chochom) and Rav Eliyahu, the chief rabbi of Tzefas.
I must also point out that Rav Gershon Edelstein had CWs weekly article in the Yated excised immediately- even before Rav Eliyahu convened his Beis Din.
Rav Silman was 100% supportive of all of the actions of Rav Eliyahu.
CW was spoken to multiple times in attempts to avoid a public Chilul Hashem.
Rather, through manipulation and threats of his victims (recorded), CW threatened that if his accusers ever go public, he will kill himself.
This is typical of predators; they attempt to convince their victims that they are the predators if they try to defend themselves, and the predator becomes the victim as he will kill himself.
CW was confident that he would never be exposed just like all serial predators.
With regards to the claims that CW had enemies who were trying to get back at him:
It is simply impossible for anyone to have coordinated two dozen people from all over Israel in all age groups and in both genders to lie in sync because of their collective grudge against him.
The evidence against CW is simply staggering.

Therefore, in light of the psak by Rav Silman from the Beis Din of Rav Nissim Karelitz and the psak from Rav Shmuel Eliyahu, one should immediately remove all books written by CW from their house and dispose of them.
They should not be given to anyone else, nor should they be donated to a library.
Rather, they should be trashed.
Besides the psak from the above-mentioned Rabbonim, I also feel that by getting rid of the books this shows a sense of unity and identification with the victims of his predatory and evil ways.
It states that we stand with the victim, not with the perpetrator.
After all, would you allow a book by someone who murdered your friend in your library?
Violating someone sexually is akin to murder.
As the Torah says:
“If out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.” (Devarim 22:25-27)
The Torah equates sexual assault to murder.

Therefore:
1.      All books from CW should be discarded in the trash immediately
2.      Families should review with their children that no one has the right to touch them in any place below their waist or on their chest.
3.      Never send your child to a therapist unless you have access to the therapy room- be it a two way mirror or the door being ajar.
4.      Never let your child go into a car with anyone alone.
5.      Never allow your daughter or son to be picked up by the family he/she is babysitting for.
a.      Either both parents have to come
b.     Or you drive them
6.      Never let your daughter (and/or son too) go into the front seat with a male or female
7.      Make sure laws of Yichud are always followed very stringently
8.      If your child is invited over for a sleepover (which nowadays is no longer a good idea), find out if there are older children or other relatives in the house BEFORE you allow your child to go.
9.      Tell your children that if they are Chas V’Shalom touched, they did nothing wrong, and they should never feel ashamed to tell you.
10.  Daven and daven more for our children’s safety

With regard to this incident, if your children ask, "Why are you throwing out his books?" Answer, "Hashem has given everyone free choice and sometimes (hopefully rarely) even good people do bad things. CW did bad and we have to remove his books. As with anything else, we are doing so based on the Psak on Gedolei Yisroel."

Let us utilize this terrible incident as a wake-up call to do good and protect the more vulnerable among us.

Please note, the views expressed in this article are mine and mine alone. I take full responsibility for them.

I sign with tears that I had to write this….

“If Not Now, Then When?”- Hillel
Ron Yitzchok Eisenman
Rabbi
Congregation Ahavas Israel
Passaic, NJ
 
 
 
 

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #304 on: December 28, 2021, 08:37:54 PM »

A bit off topic, but I was actually just thinking about the same thing....
People are discussing how to prevent such things, and regain people's trust in therapists etc.
Apparently not enough people realize that Yichud isn't only a prevention, but actually a transgression of its own!
If therapy between male/female is done without causing any Yichud, things are unlikely to advance in the wrong direction.
(Leaving the door open a crack? Have a secretary walk in randomly every once in a while? It may not be easy to avoid Yichud in such private/sensitive situations like therapy, but it's an Issur D'oiraisa)
Maybe an awareness campaign on the topic of Yichud can prevent the next horror.... Not just for adults, but teenagers too. (And maybe even younger than that)

Rabbi Avi Wiesenfeld covering hilchos Yichud past 3 days:

https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=173186  (part 1)
https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=173287 (part 2)
https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=173410 (part 3)

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #305 on: December 28, 2021, 08:43:10 PM »

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #306 on: December 28, 2021, 08:58:27 PM »
Maybe an awareness campaign on the topic of Yichud can prevent the next horror.... Not just for adults, but teenagers too. (And maybe even younger than that)

Has anyone here learned hilchos yichud is yeshiva or high school? I sure didn't, and I'm not aware of anyone who did.

Sounds like a pretty big oversight for a subject that's so applicable to everyday life.
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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #307 on: December 28, 2021, 09:04:01 PM »
Has anyone here learned hilchos yichud is yeshiva or high school? I sure didn't, and I'm not aware of anyone who did.

Sounds like a pretty big oversight for a subject that's so applicable to everyday life.
Great resource. Daily email with all halachos on yichud (with very clear graphs) and other kirvah. https://www.doeihu.org/

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #308 on: December 28, 2021, 09:05:00 PM »
Has anyone here learned hilchos yichud is yeshiva or high school? I sure didn't, and I'm not aware of anyone who did.

Sounds like a pretty big oversight for a subject that's so applicable to everyday life.
Its can happen in more situations then people think. IE Uber late at night etc...

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #309 on: December 28, 2021, 09:05:27 PM »
The Short Vort- CW - received via e-mail from Rabbi Ron Yitzchok Eisenman

The Short Vort
Good Morning!

Today is Tuesday the 24th of Teves 5782 and December 28th, 2021

CW
(Chaim Waldler)

I could have ignored it, as most are.
I could have sensationalized it as some are.
I could blame it on the people who asked me my opinion.
However, all of that would not be truthful.
As a person who has had the painful experiences of crying with victims of sexual abuse for two and half decades, I have decided I cannot remain silent.
I CANNOT BE SILENT when I think of a beloved friend who was brought up in the heart of a Chassidic community and is now an avowed atheist.
When I am contacted by women who were violated and are now emotionally scarred, I cannot be silent.
And when I see people I used to respect downplaying, minimizing, and –worst of all blaming the victims, I cannot be silent.
There is no code of silence when someone is screaming in pain.
When one is silent, they are engaging in complacency and complicity.
Iyov failed to scream out when we heard of the future pain to the Jewish people, and for that, he suffered.
So too, I must scream out in pain when I see the pain of two dozen individuals spanning over two decades.
I did not sleep the last two nights as the stories of young women and men, married women, boys and girls who sit in loneliness and fear fill my mind.
I tossed and turned as I thought about those who have no one to turn to, for no one will believe them.
I think about those victims who have, in some cases, suffered years of abuse at the hands of serial molesters.
They had (and often still have) no one to turn to.
They are shamed, scarred, stained, and humiliated.
And therefore, I must scream out at the case of CW.
At the outset, I admit that every case must be handled carefully and with sensitivity.
Obviously, a lone allegation made about a person whose reputation is unstained and the allegation stems from thirty years ago must be carefully fleshed out before taking it as a fact.
However, when you have dozens of boys, girls, married women, and single women who have testified in front of the Beis Din of Rav Shmuel Eliyahu about being victimized by CW, then we must not be silent.
Some of the allegations against CW are from over two decades ago, and some are as recent as six months ago.
The evidence, in this case, is overwhelming.
I don’t know of any Rav who has spoken in defense of CW.
If anything, it seems that it was an open secret that was waiting to blow up.
Here are the facts:
Rav Shmuel Eliyahu, Chief Rav of Tzfas, went personally and spoke privately to CW and pleaded with him to stop his pernicious ways. CW responded with intimidation and threats.
The Gaon HaRav Yehudah Moshe Silman – the head of the most respected Beis Din in Israel, the Beis Din of Rav Nissim Karelitz Zt”L, teamed up with Rav Eliyahu, and he also pleaded with CW to cease and desist. His pleas fell on deaf ears.
In his suicide note, CW named both Rav Eliyahu and Rav Silman and called them to a Din Torah in heaven for their allegations against him.
CW was summoned to attend the proceedings against him in the Beis Din of Rav Eliyahu and declined.
CW chose to go straight to the heavenly Beis Din with his own gun.

Both Rav Silman and Rav Eliyahu have issued public halachik decisions that one should not read or possess in their home books authored by a serial predator and destroyer of lives.
I spoke to one of the major Dayanim here in America (I did not ask permission to use his name). He, too, was emphatic that one should sanitize one’s house from the pernicious, destructive, and poisonous works of a serial rapist.
I spoke this morning to my good friend and amazing Seforim Store owner, Mr. Berman from Z.Berman Books here in Passaic.
He has informed me that CW’s books will no longer be sold here in Passaic.

I stress that I am following in the path of those greater than I, namely, Rav Silman (almost 80 years old and a great Talmid Chochom) and Rav Eliyahu, the chief rabbi of Tzefas.
I must also point out that Rav Gershon Edelstein had CWs weekly article in the Yated excised immediately- even before Rav Eliyahu convened his Beis Din.
Rav Silman was 100% supportive of all of the actions of Rav Eliyahu.
CW was spoken to multiple times in attempts to avoid a public Chilul Hashem.
Rather, through manipulation and threats of his victims (recorded), CW threatened that if his accusers ever go public, he will kill himself.
This is typical of predators; they attempt to convince their victims that they are the predators if they try to defend themselves, and the predator becomes the victim as he will kill himself.
CW was confident that he would never be exposed just like all serial predators.
With regards to the claims that CW had enemies who were trying to get back at him:
It is simply impossible for anyone to have coordinated two dozen people from all over Israel in all age groups and in both genders to lie in sync because of their collective grudge against him.
The evidence against CW is simply staggering.

Therefore, in light of the psak by Rav Silman from the Beis Din of Rav Nissim Karelitz and the psak from Rav Shmuel Eliyahu, one should immediately remove all books written by CW from their house and dispose of them.
They should not be given to anyone else, nor should they be donated to a library.
Rather, they should be trashed.
Besides the psak from the above-mentioned Rabbonim, I also feel that by getting rid of the books this shows a sense of unity and identification with the victims of his predatory and evil ways.
It states that we stand with the victim, not with the perpetrator.
After all, would you allow a book by someone who murdered your friend in your library?
Violating someone sexually is akin to murder.
As the Torah says:
“If out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.” (Devarim 22:25-27)
The Torah equates sexual assault to murder.

Therefore:
1.      All books from CW should be discarded in the trash immediately
2.      Families should review with their children that no one has the right to touch them in any place below their waist or on their chest.
3.      Never send your child to a therapist unless you have access to the therapy room- be it a two way mirror or the door being ajar.
4.      Never let your child go into a car with anyone alone.
5.      Never allow your daughter or son to be picked up by the family he/she is babysitting for.
a.      Either both parents have to come
b.     Or you drive them
6.      Never let your daughter (and/or son too) go into the front seat with a male or female
7.      Make sure laws of Yichud are always followed very stringently
8.      If your child is invited over for a sleepover (which nowadays is no longer a good idea), find out if there are older children or other relatives in the house BEFORE you allow your child to go.
9.      Tell your children that if they are Chas V’Shalom touched, they did nothing wrong, and they should never feel ashamed to tell you.
10.  Daven and daven more for our children’s safety

With regard to this incident, if your children ask, "Why are you throwing out his books?" Answer, "Hashem has given everyone free choice and sometimes (hopefully rarely) even good people do bad things. CW did bad and we have to remove his books. As with anything else, we are doing so based on the Psak on Gedolei Yisroel."

Let us utilize this terrible incident as a wake-up call to do good and protect the more vulnerable among us.

Please note, the views expressed in this article are mine and mine alone. I take full responsibility for them.

I sign with tears that I had to write this….

“If Not Now, Then When?”- Hillel
Ron Yitzchok Eisenman
Rabbi
Congregation Ahavas Israel
Passaic, NJ
Wow!

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #310 on: December 28, 2021, 09:08:52 PM »
By the way something I haven’t seen mentioned yet is that it is very often the victims who go on to become the next perpetrators. For all we know there is quite a good chance that even if Rav Eliyahu can be trusted and is accurately portraying things which is far from a given, Walder would likely have been the victim of more than just his yetzer hara. To say he isn’t going up to shomayim is quite presumptuous to say the least.

On the quotation that victims become perpetrators.
I asked this of a well known therapist.
He said this would only apply to untreated victims victims that have been in therapy are much less likely even if they haven't overcome it completely

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #311 on: December 28, 2021, 09:15:19 PM »
Unless I hear Daas Torah saying not to read his book, I will continue to keep them/buy them. They are great books, and unless there is a reason not to have them, I have no issue with my kids reading them (as long as they don't know anything about the author).

This is what my 12-year-old told me today when he came home from Cheder

Do you know CW from the books? He died. Do you know how? He shot himself. Do you know why? Mordy Getz from echlers put them into charim for made up things.


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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #312 on: December 28, 2021, 09:16:51 PM »
This is what my 12-year-old told me today when he came home from Cheder

Do you know CW from the books? He died. Do you know how? He shot himself. Do you know why? Mordy Getz from echlers put them into charim for made up things.
And what did YOU tell him?

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #313 on: December 28, 2021, 09:18:45 PM »
Great resource. Daily email with all halachos on yichud (with very clear graphs) and other kirvah. https://www.doeihu.org/

Problem is that one can learn hilchos yichud every single day -- but the yetzer hora can still over power a person r'l.  Unless a person obtains yiras shamayim and works hard everyday to maintain it.

Gemara Kidushin 30b:
אָמַר רַב יִצְחָק יִצְרוֹ שֶׁל אָדָם מִתְחַדֵּשׁ עָלָיו בְּכׇל יוֹם 
וְאָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לֵוִי יִצְרוֹ שֶׁל אָדָם מִתְגַּבֵּר עָלָיו בְּכׇל יוֹם וּמְבַקֵּשׁ הֲמִיתוֹ

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #314 on: December 28, 2021, 09:21:44 PM »
Problem is that one can learn hilchos yichud every single day -- but the yetzer hora can still over power a person r'l.  Unless a person obtains yiras shamayim and works hard everyday to maintain it.

Gemara Kidushin 30b:
אָמַר רַב יִצְחָק יִצְרוֹ שֶׁל אָדָם מִתְחַדֵּשׁ עָלָיו בְּכׇל יוֹם 
וְאָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לֵוִי יִצְרוֹ שֶׁל אָדָם מִתְגַּבֵּר עָלָיו בְּכׇל יוֹם וּמְבַקֵּשׁ הֲמִיתוֹ
If the victims and their parents knew hilchos yichud they may realize there is an issue.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Online EliJelly

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #315 on: December 28, 2021, 09:24:26 PM »
Problem is that one can learn hilchos yichud every single day -- but the yetzer hora can still over power a person r'l.  Unless a person obtains yiras shamayim and works hard everyday to maintain it.

Gemara Kidushin 30b:
אָמַר רַב יִצְחָק יִצְרוֹ שֶׁל אָדָם מִתְחַדֵּשׁ עָלָיו בְּכׇל יוֹם 
וְאָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לֵוִי יִצְרוֹ שֶׁל אָדָם מִתְגַּבֵּר עָלָיו בְּכׇל יוֹם וּמְבַקֵּשׁ הֲמִיתוֹ
Hilchos yichud was specially designed to prevent a nisoyon, not as a measure not to succumb once there is a nisoyon.

Offline tov hashem

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #316 on: December 28, 2021, 09:24:59 PM »
Problem is that in this forum we are discussing this topic in quite a normal adult way, hopefully it will help are kids and the future. and on ivelt Yiddish forum they don’t let to discuss this topic which bothers me. I hope that in that  community they don’t have this problems!

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Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #317 on: December 28, 2021, 09:26:12 PM »
Hilchos yichud doesn't address male/male scenarios which makes up a huge part of abuses.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #318 on: December 28, 2021, 09:30:35 PM »
Hilchos yichud doesn't address male/male scenarios which makes up a huge part of abuses.

Many years ago I worked for a national youth organization. They implemented the same yichud gedorim for all male/male (adult/child) interactions.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #319 on: December 28, 2021, 09:30:46 PM »
Hilchos yichud doesn't address male/male scenarios which makes up a huge part of abuses.
In a normal world such desires doesn't exist, only by sick people, while for male/female scenarios chazal say אין אפוטרופוס לעריות.