Chaim Walder dies

[Euclid]

[tweet]1475842632467296257[/tweet]

I saw a picture of the Yated article, and wanted to post about it here, but didn't manage to do it easily and didn't have time to find a way to do it.

IMO If Yated (which has history) doesn't fold up over this, I think it is a MAJOR failure. (Not sure to what extent the English/US Yated is affiliated, but if they can, they should rebrand and disassociate).

The US Yated isn't affiliated (anymore).

The baffling part of the "zatzal" was that his infidelity was a badly kept secret for many years (like @aygart mentioned above - there are multiple piskei bais din about married women who became assur due to him). The story that Haaretz broke about the underage abuse is what makes this something horrific.


There's a recording from R' Moshe Mordechai Shulzinger going back 17 years, making a play on words that Walder is חזיר יער (Vald means forest in Yiddish) and that he is chashud al hakol, al Kol Hatorah kulah.

https://www.bhol.co.il/forums/topic.asp?cat_id=4&topic_id=1043387&forum_id=771

[JlmBoi]

[VacationLover]

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/2045852/support-victims-of-abuse-let-not-history-repeat-itself.html

"We have set our community back light years, creating a tragic scenario where innocent victims will be afraid to speak out because the community will label them as rodfim and murderers, instead of placing the blame squarely where it belongs – on the shoulders of those who abuse children."

And another quote from the article is this:

Negligently destroying someone’s reputation without any shred of evidence or credibility is a terrible act, and goes against everything we stand for.

[Euclid]

And another quote from the article is this:

Negligently destroying someone’s reputation without any shred of evidence or credibility is a terrible act, and goes against everything we stand for.

This is controversial? That's not what happened here.

[nbfromnj]

And through the toughness of it all, our goal, first and foremost, has to be the emotional and physical safety and wellbeing of the victims of abuse, and how our comments can and will affect them.

I  would like to bring up a point that I feel cannot be left unsaid even if it is not relevant to this particular case.

through the toughness of it all, our goal, first and foremost, has to be to react to things we hear the way the Torah tells us to react in that particular instance.

The general rule with accepting lashon hara is that unless the accusations have already been confirmed true by a beis din, one may not believe the accusations but he may suspect and protect himself (and others) until the matter is verified.

The emotional and physical wellbeing of abuse victims is of utmost importance which is why their accusations should be investigated seriously. However, one may not believe it as true until the investigations have been completed and a beis din has given a psak.

going to the media or social media with accusations before a psak is made is not allowed either

[yelped]

https://www.theyeshiva.net/jewish/8361/womens-vaera-class-chaim-walder-the-cover-ups-in-our-communities

Who is that person in the comments who moved to Lakewood? Why is that not stopped? Why isn't he known so we could be careful?

[aygart]

I  would like to bring up a point that I feel cannot be left unsaid even if it is not relevant to this particular case.

through the toughness of it all, our goal, first and foremost, has to be to react to things we hear the way the Torah tells us to react in that particular instance.

The general rule with accepting lashon hara is that unless the accusations have already been confirmed true by a beis din, one may not believe the accusations but he may suspect and protect himself (and others) until the matter is verified.

The emotional and physical wellbeing of abuse victims is of utmost importance which is why their accusations should be investigated seriously. However, one may not believe it as true until the investigations have been completed and a beis din has given a psak.

going to the media or social media with accusations before a psak is made is not allowed either

Source? There is much more to it than a psak. There are many cases where it can be even before them and many where the psak doesn't help.

[nbfromnj]

Source? There is much more to it than a psak. There are many cases where it can be even before them and many where the psak doesn't help.

sefer chafetz chaim, klal zayin, halacha 4 with be'er mayim chaim

[dasmo801]

going to the media or social media with accusations before a psak is made is not allowed either

So if I have information that your neighbor is a predator, I am not allowed to warn you and your entire neighborhood without a psak BD? What is the source for this?

[nbfromnj]

So if I have information that your neighbor is a predator, I am not allowed to warn you and your entire neighborhood without a psak BD? What is the source for this?

You probably are required to warn but you must know exactly what is the right way to warn.  Just like any lashon hara l'toeles, there are very specific ways the information must be given over.

[yandmk]

So if I have information that your neighbor is a predator, I am not allowed to warn you and your entire neighborhood without a psak BD? What is the source for this?

You can warn him, and you should warn him. Canceling and destroying the perpetrator is another story.

[yandmk]

https://twitter.com/freifeldracheli/status/1475842632467296257?s=21

I saw a picture of the Yated article, and wanted to post about it here, but didn't manage to do it easily and didn't have time to find a way to do it.

IMO If Yated (which has history) doesn't fold up over this, I think it is a MAJOR failure. (Not sure to what extent the English/US Yated is affiliated, but if they can, they should rebrand and disassociate).

.

[EliJelly]

It's easy enough for a respected and charismatic adult, in a position of authority, to convince a young person that those halachos don't apply in this situation.

Correct, but while a principle/parent wouldn't be comfortable to ask a young girl if her therapist comes in physical contact with her, they can still ask innocently what mechanism he uses to avoid yichud. You're talking of 20+ years of doing therapy, showing zero regard for yichud should be a red flag.

[Something Fishy]

I saw a picture of the Yated article, and wanted to post about it here, but didn't manage to do it easily and didn't have time to find a way to do it.

IMO If Yated (which has history) doesn't fold up over this, I think it is a MAJOR failure. (Not sure to what extent the English/US Yated is affiliated, but if they can, they should rebrand and disassociate).

יתד לא נאמן

[Yehuda57]

I  would like to bring up a point that I feel cannot be left unsaid even if it is not relevant to this particular case.

through the toughness of it all, our goal, first and foremost, has to be to react to things we hear the way the Torah tells us to react in that particular instance.

The general rule with accepting lashon hara is that unless the accusations have already been confirmed true by a beis din, one may not believe the accusations but he may suspect and protect himself (and others) until the matter is verified.

The emotional and physical wellbeing of abuse victims is of utmost importance which is why their accusations should be investigated seriously. However, one may not believe it as true until the investigations have been completed and a beis din has given a psak.

going to the media or social media with accusations before a psak is made is not allowed either

This is utter poppycock. You've created an entire bubbeh maaseh about lashon hora as if it somehow contradicts protecting victims and potential victims. The two are not mutually exclusive.

As I said before, if the two do contradict, it's telling where you choose to err. On the side of protecting the abuser of the victims.

Is this really the hill people want to die on? Defending the honor of the likes of Chaim Walder?

[ExGingi]

The US Yated isn't affiliated (anymore).

In that case they would be smart if they rebranded ASAP (and foolish if they don't IMHO).

[yandmk]

https://twitter.com/freifeldracheli/status/1475842632467296257?s=21

I saw a picture of the Yated article, and wanted to post about it here, but didn't manage to do it easily and didn't have time to find a way to do it.

IMO If Yated (which has history) doesn't fold up over this, I think it is a MAJOR failure. (Not sure to what extent the English/US Yated is affiliated, but if they can, they should rebrand and disassociate).

I don't know particularly about the Yated. But I think people are misunderstanding something very important here.
Nobody is protecting an "abuser" just because he was a great guy and a great author and very influential. They are questioning if there is actually evidence to prove that he's actually an abuser, which would allow to defame him.
Afaik, there isn't one person (with a name) who came out publicly saying that they were abused by him. Everyone is busy "protecting" 22 anonymouses...
There's a psak from Harav Gershon vs the psak of R' SE. They're obviously going to follow Harav Gershon.
(And honestly speaking, I'm sure most here on this forum would go with Harav Gershon's psak over R' SE if they had a personal matter to resolve)

[ExGingi]

יתד לא נאמן

יסודתו במחלוקת

[ExGingi]

I don't know particularly about the Yated. But I think people are misunderstanding something very important here.
Nobody is protecting an "abuser" just because he was a great guy and a great author and very influential. They are questioning if there is actually evidence to prove that he's actually an abuser, which would allow to defame him.
Afaik, there isn't one person (with a name) who came out publicly saying that they were abused by him. Everyone is busy "protecting" 22 anonymouses...
There's a psak from Harav Gershon vs the psak of R' SE. They're obviously going to follow Harav Gershon.
(And honestly speaking, I'm sure most here on this forum would go with Harav Gershon's psak over R' SE if they had a personal matter to resolve)

All fine and dandy. But זצ"ל? ? ? ? ?

[yandmk]

All fine and dandy. But זצ"ל? ? ? ? ?

Agreed. I specified that I'm not referring to the Yated specifically. All Chareidi media in Israel abstained from mentioning any negative.
(Gotta give them credit for not writing zatzal in the title... Though they did write Harav....)