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I created an account to say this

I am a survivor of abuse

I tried to type up a longer, more detailed post but it got too hard. The bottom line is the following

There's no such thing as universal feelings, reactions, desires, needs that all victims share. Each one is an individual who suffered alone and carries the unique scars that stay with them and each one will react to future situations in life in their own way.

Therefore, there is no single response to abuse that will leave all victims feeling safe, secure, validated, supported, closure and everything else all the well meaning people here want to give them.

However, I think there is a single response that would leave all victims feeling further pain and trauma and that is "It can't be."

Rabbi Shimon Russell - How to Safeguard and Protect our Children

https://youtu.be/fefqSvXf0JI


« Last edited by Yehuda57 on January 12, 2022, 05:44:00 PM »

Author Topic: Chaim Walder dies  (Read 185631 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #780 on: January 02, 2022, 05:38:16 PM »
some of the story in question can be read on this link:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KUxz4WeOyE8C&pg=PA91&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

Page 118. The part about CW being involved in the story is either on the missing page or I didn't remember the story correctly.
The one on page 85 is pretty creepy in the current context at least when the pages are removed.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #781 on: January 02, 2022, 07:21:15 PM »

Most adulterers take advantage of vulnerable women in one way or another.

Care to provide a source for this? That's a huge claim which I'd wager you just fabricated out of thin air, not to mention it removes all agency from women, which is a huge tell on your part.

IF (and I’m not convinced it was limited to eishes ish)that was the extent of his aveiros he is chayav misah but that is hardly a rapist and known abuser.

Let's say you're right, and I'm way off, and instead of being guilty of rape he's *merely* guilty of taking advantage of emotionally vulnerable women with mental health concerns. Is this that where we're drawing the line? That's who you want your kids reading? Rachamana litzlan. And you're writing it with such a blase way, like "who cares if he's chayav misah, at least it keeps the kids busy on those long shabbos afternoons."

Aren't we the ones who are famously highly discriminating in what enters our homes? On what our children see and and hear?

Offline VacationLover

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #782 on: January 02, 2022, 07:42:50 PM »
Aren't we the ones who are famously highly discriminating in what enters our homes? On what our children see and and hear?
I wonder how much you and others mean it "Leshem Shomayim" As I wrote previously
I'll note that here on DDF we have a couple of threads discussing TV shows, movies etc. (Some of which Harvey weinstein was involved 🤔)

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #783 on: January 02, 2022, 07:45:56 PM »
I wonder how much you and others mean it "Leshem Shomayim" As I wrote previously
There's a world of difference between what I read and watch and what my kids do. I'm not for one second going to tell you I'm even close to as discriminating as I should be for myself, but I can count on one hand the secular books my kids have read with fingers to spare. I don't think I'm that unique on this forum.

Offline aygart

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #784 on: January 02, 2022, 08:06:39 PM »
I wonder how much you and others mean it "Leshem Shomayim" As I wrote previously
Let me get this straight because I am not fully wrapping my head around this. Here we have a guy who all seem to agree that he was over on eishes ish a number of times in a manipulative way and is accused of manipulating children too with the story backed by a beis din albeit possibly a controversial one. The rabbonim of Bnei Brak said to put away his books until an investigation is completed and that has at the very least not yet occurred. Yet you feel it so important to keep his books that you are ready to cast aspersions on anyone who agrees with the Bnei Brak rabbonim that it is not lsheim shomayim because some people opened threads here discussing TV shows even without connecting those threads to those who you are writing about? But to give credibility to those accusing a known noeif who clearly did not do tshuva to the end you find problematic? Fech.
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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #785 on: January 02, 2022, 08:17:17 PM »
Rabbi Simon jacobson talk on it now https://www.chassidusapplied.com/

Offline yzj

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #786 on: January 02, 2022, 08:17:29 PM »
Care to provide a source for this? That's a huge claim which I'd wager you just fabricated out of thin air, not to mention it removes all agency from women, which is a huge tell on your part.

Let's say you're right, and I'm way off, and instead of being guilty of rape he's *merely* guilty of taking advantage of emotionally vulnerable women with mental health concerns. Is this that where we're drawing the line? That's who you want your kids reading? Rachamana litzlan. And you're writing it with such a blase way, like "who cares if he's chayav misah, at least it keeps the kids busy on those long shabbos afternoons."

Aren't we the ones who are famously highly discriminating in what enters our homes? On what our children see and and hear?
I don’t think it needs a source. I think it’s obvious to every male that’s been around the block that a frum married Jewish woman doesn’t usually just decide to trash her loving husband and family and have an impulsive fling. There is almost always an emotional vulnerability- she feels cherished, valued, admired, cared for in a way that she is missing, or she opens up emotionally and developed a close connection with a male and gets sucked into it. Sometimes a manipulative male can get her to believe he really cares for her. Sometimes starts unwittingly on both their parts. It is rarely a happy emotionally stable frum woman who rationally decides it would be nice to have a fling.

An author who is chayav misah for arayos is actually far less dangerous that one that has dangerous deos and espouses them in his books. Most on these forums would allow kids to read Harry Potter, who’s author claims she subtly stuck in a gay romantic relationship between two teenage boys. I don’t see too many protests about it. I’ve seen the chronicles of narnia in many jewish homes despite the author overtly selling a detailed glorification of J. and his sacrifice in the guise of Aslan. There are countless other such examples each far more pernicious than an author who gave in to taivah  and was mezaneh with an eishes ish, even on multiple occasions. I appreciate someone who is careful not to bring anything other than gedolim books into his house but that’s not what we are discussing.

So the answer is no, most people don’t select books based on whether the author ate sefichei shviis, lent money with Ribbis, speaks Lashon Hara (more severe than arayos) or was over eishes ish. Now if it turns out that he was a pedophile and monster that is quite different.

I’m willing to wager that the Rabbonim of Bnei Berak who said to put away his books would be far more aghast at the content of the books that many Americans have in their homes. And I’m not even talking about racy romance novels and the like. I’m talking regular secular so called “clean books” that are found in the average JPF home. The Rabbanim of Bnei Brak are speaking to a crowd that has far higher standards in their selection of literature....
« Last Edit: January 02, 2022, 08:31:05 PM by yzj »

Offline VacationLover

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #787 on: January 02, 2022, 08:19:48 PM »
Let me get this straight because I am not fully wrapping my head around this. Here we have a guy who all seem to agree that he was over on eishes ish a number of times in a manipulative way and is accused of manipulating children too with the story backed by a beis din albeit possibly a controversial one. The rabbonim of Bnei Brak said to put away his books until an investigation is completed and that has at the very least not yet occurred. Yet you feel it so important to keep his books that you are ready to cast aspersions on anyone who agrees with the Bnei Brak rabbonim that it is not lsheim shomayim because some people opened threads here discussing TV shows even without connecting those threads to those who you are writing about? But to give credibility to those accusing a known noeif who clearly did not do tshuva to the end you find problematic? Fech.
I'm not backing him. Not backing his actions. Not backing abuse in any way.

I see there are a couple of members here who are overly excited with this thread and have great satisfaction in discussing what he did (according to 1 BD) and how dangerous it is to read his books.

I personally read his books as a young boy, and didn't buy them for my kids (not on purpose)

I'm just wondering if all the logic and reasoning in removing his books also applies to secular movies (certainly romance) and secular books.

Offline aygart

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #788 on: January 02, 2022, 08:22:16 PM »



I'm just wondering if all the logic and reasoning in removing his books also applies to secular movies (certainly romance) and secular books.

Of course it does and you did more than wonder. You cast aspersions on people based on nothing at all other than your disagreement with them about the books written by a noief and accused pedophile.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline VacationLover

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #789 on: January 02, 2022, 08:37:41 PM »

Of course it does and you did more than wonder. You cast aspersions on people based on nothing at all other than your disagreement with them about the books written by a noief and accused pedophile.
I'll not comment further on this subject BL"N.

It's interesting how members here disscuss the terrible actions of CW and how we shouldn't read his books because it has bad influences (agreed). And by the movie thread some of the same members discuss male and female actress who did similar actions as CW. And no one mentions there (fech)

Offline sguitarist18

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #790 on: January 02, 2022, 08:41:34 PM »
I think it's worthwhile pointing out that there's a major difference between secular books and frum ones. When I, or my kids, reads a secular book, we're reading it for the entertainment. Obviously (and this part of the ever-present danger) when the protagonist espouses problematic behaviors/beliefs it has the potential to impact us, but we're not holding it up as a paragon of what we believe is the ideal.

When we're reading a frum book, that's exactly what we're doing, and that allows subtle and insidious perversions to slip past our radar.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #791 on: January 02, 2022, 08:42:23 PM »
I'll not comment further on this subject BL"N.

It's interesting how members here disscuss the terrible actions of CW and how we shouldn't read his books because it has bad influences (agreed). And by the movie thread some of the same members discuss male and female actress who did similar actions as CW. And no one mentions there (fech)

I was unaware that DDF has a movie thread. But as IINM it has been pointed above that there's a huge difference between someone who was viewed as a contributor to the wellbeing of kids, to Hollywood personalities who no one looks at as anything remotely resembling a moral compass.
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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #792 on: January 02, 2022, 08:42:58 PM »
And by the movie thread some of the same members discuss male and female actress who did similar actions as CW. And no one mentions there (fech)
I might have missed it but is anyone defending these individuals? Harvey Weinstein?
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Offline aygart

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #793 on: January 02, 2022, 08:45:00 PM »
I'll not comment further on this subject BL"N.

It's interesting how members here disscuss the terrible actions of CW and how we shouldn't read his books because it has bad influences (agreed). And by the movie thread some of the same members discuss male and female actress who did similar actions as CW. And no one mentions there (fech)
I wouldn't know who is or isn't there.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #794 on: January 02, 2022, 09:07:11 PM »

Sheesh. Where to start? Lashon hora is worse than yehareg v'al yaavor? Kaas is like avoda zara, so better to read kfirah than an author with anger management issues. Lashon hora kills three people, so presumably someone who is over is chayav misah, correct? The inability to differentiate between literal and figurative doesn't bode well for a productive conversation.

And the whole drasha about men manipulating women, aside from being removed from reality, completely ignored my point about removing agency from women. The concept is so far removed it wasn't seen even when it was spelled out.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #795 on: January 02, 2022, 09:08:29 PM »
I wouldn't know who is or isn't there.

I was singled out and I'm 99% sure I've not posted in those threads, and even if I did, not on any kids productions.

Offline S209

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #796 on: January 02, 2022, 09:25:11 PM »
I'll not comment further on this subject BL"N.

It's interesting how members here disscuss the terrible actions of CW and how we shouldn't read his books because it has bad influences (agreed). And by the movie thread some of the same members discuss male and female actress who did similar actions as CW. And no one mentions there (fech)
I think you’re the only member in this conversation who’s even visited that thread.
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Offline VacationLover

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #797 on: January 02, 2022, 10:00:21 PM »
I was singled out
didn't mean you specifically. Sorry for being so direct.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #798 on: January 02, 2022, 10:02:15 PM »
I wonder how much you and others mean it "Leshem Shomayim" As I wrote previously

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