Chaim Walder dies

[Yehuda57]

Many of those reasons would apply to expunging the music of SC as well. I don't know of any shul that has a policy that his tunes may not be used.

There are numerous,.

[AsherO]

There are numerous,.

Looks like the poster deleted it here. There are some (perhaps minor) distinctions to be made between SC and  CW, where all of SC’s (known) accusers we’re not minors, though many reported the advances/behaviors to be non-consensual and abusive.

When thinking about SC, and in some ways it applies to CW and other situations as well, I think of כל הגדול מחברו יצרו גדול הימנו. These are larger than life personalities (at least in their potential), that we’re also very troubled/challenged. Not that it in any way makes them less accountable or their actions less awful, if anything it only makes things worse.

[TimT]

where all of SC’s (known) accusers we’re not minors,

? איז וואס

[WonderingYid]

On my phone, sorry for the brevity.

There was a story in the 70s/80s where a Rosh Yeshiva (or magid shiur) was accused of sexual abuse. People came to the Steipler and he threw them out because he didn't believe it. As more testimony came in, he changed his stance and even wrote this letter to publicly denounce this rabbi. The rabbi is now in his upper 80s and hasn't held a public position since then.

Did the story sound nonreliable or was the Rabbi too prestigious?

[aygart]

Did the story sound nonreliable or was the Rabbi too prestigious?

This was 40 years ago.

[VacationLover]

HTere was a dayan from Bnei Brak involved here.

A reputable Dayen? Source?
That would change my opinion.

[WonderingYid]

This was 40 years ago.

Did the story sound nonreliable or was the Rabbi too prestigious?

The question still stands.

[aygart]

A reputable Dayen? Source?
That would change my opinion.

People were bringing from R Silman in this thread. I don't think it was as a full investigative BD. Either way,

You are preferring the secular Israeli courts over a Sefardic BD in Tzfas? Why?

[aygart]

The question still stands.

It will be almost impossible to have reliable reasoning at this point.

[Happyguy]

A reputable Dayen? Source?
That would change my opinion.

https://vinnews.com/2021/12/29/powerful-letter-from-rabbi-ron-yitzchok-eisenman-of-passaic-about-the-chaim-walder-case/

[skyguy918]

I was recently at an event for young educators in Yerusholayim whos topics included dealing with alleged abuse from authority figures.
The consensus of the (well respected in the field, and known to the US frum community) panelists was that that Bnei Brak is the most advanced chareidi City in Israel at the moment because there is a dedicated BD experienced in investigating these matters. (as opposed to the wild west of JLM where there is not)

+1. This is basically what R' Lopiansky relayed at the Agudah Convention ('Asking for a Friend' session). And I should point out that he said explicitly that the BD he was referring to was R' Nissim's BD - the same BD that put out the letter weeks ago saying not to read CW's books until the matter is settled.

[flyingace]

I was recently at an event for young educators in Yerusholayim whos topics included dealing with alleged abuse from authority figures.
The consensus of the (well respected in the field, and known to the US frum community) panelists was that that Bnei Brak is the most advanced chareidi City in Israel at the moment because there is a dedicated BD experienced in investigating these matters. (as opposed to the wild west of JLM where there is not)

If a woman was given a get based on an affair with CW why wouldn't the Bais Din who had that info put out warnings to Rabbanim etc. to avoid sending to him? And if all these rumors have been circulating for years why were people still using him as a therapist?

[yzj]

People were bringing from R Silman in this thread. I don't think it was as a full investigative BD. Either way,

Rav Silman did not say anything remotely like Rav Shmuel Eliyahu’s claims AFAIK

[aygart]

+1. This is basically what R' Lopiansky relayed at the Agudah Convention ('Asking for a Friend' session). And I should point out that he said explicitly that the BD he was referring to was R' Nissim's BD - the same BD that put out the letter weeks ago saying not to read CW's books until the matter is settled.

The same one he claimed killed jfk, flew planes into the twin towers and created covid?

[AsherO]

? איז וואס

It’s a different kind of offense. One is a “normal” יצה״ר that is allowed to run wild, the other is a whole new level of depraved. It’s a minor distinction, yet a distinction nevertheless.

It doesn’t make either of them in any way excusable or justified in the slightest.

[TimT]

It’s a different kind of offense. One is a “normal” יצה״ר that is allowed to run wild, the other is a whole new level of depraved. It’s a minor distinction, yet a distinction nevertheless.

It doesn’t make either of them in any way excusable or justified in the slightest.

His music is very emotional/spiritual & he could’ve used that as a way to get to people. If there are victims they might be traumatized when they walk into a shul & hear his music or see adds for his style events with his name prominently displayed. Shouldn’t his music, as nice as it is, go into the trash ?

[Happyguy]

Rav Silman did not say anything remotely like Rav Shmuel Eliyahu’s claims AFAIK

https://vinnews.com/2021/12/29/powerful-letter-from-rabbi-ron-yitzchok-eisenman-of-passaic-about-the-chaim-walder-case/

[Dan]

His music is very emotional/spiritual & he could’ve used that as a way to get to people. If there are victims they might be traumatized when they walk into a shul & hear his music or see adds for his style events with his name prominently displayed. Shouldn’t his music, as nice as it is, go into the trash ?

In many Chabad Houses (including in CLE) his songs are banned...

[YitzyS]

The US Yated isn't affiliated (anymore).

In that case they would be smart if they rebranded ASAP (and foolish if they don't IMHO).

It is a known fact that the American Yated has had ZERO affiliation to the Israeli one for decades, IINM. Rebranding now would make it sound like they did have a connection until now, which IMO would be worse. The Israeli paper is not even on their radar, and for an American paper with a tremendous brand-name to start again with a new name would be a terrible idea, in my opinion.

To try to find a contrast, imagine if the original owner of the DansDeals website made headlines for being a terrible person, would Dan change the name of his website? Or would the mentality be that our respected brand has zero connection to that unremarkable bad guy and his actions have absolutely no bearing on us.

[shimino1]

On the SC front (why aren't we using his name? Are we chas vshalom protecting the reputation of a dead person that can't defend themselves?) there is a beautiful story written by Chaim Walder of how SC did teshuva right before getting on the airplane on which he died.

The uniqueness of the story is that it doesn't idolize SC or vilify him but rather turns the spotlight onto his special character and sincere warmth and humility without lending to the controversy surrounding the man himself. 
If only we could learn to speak like that about Chaim Walder....