Chaim Walder dies

[Yehuda57]

https://mishpacha.com/for-this-we-weep/

Excellent piece

I need to break the news to you: There is no organization called “the rabbanim.” There are thousands of rabbanim, rebbeim, ramim, each inundated with the needs and demands of their communities and talmidim. But each one is a yachid, overwhelmed by the particular needs of his charges.

[AsherO]

CMIIW, he knows of abusers but doesn't release the list because he is worried of getting sued?

I’ll correct you then, because you ARE wrong. Regardless of what he does or doesn’t know, since neither you nor I know what he does or doesn’t know.

He is a person who has devoted his life to helping others including abuse victims.

You OTOH are an anonymous stranger on the internet, trolling an important topic instead of doing something productive, telling people who’ve devoted their lives to helping people that unless they do it your way they’re doing nothing (or worse, harming others).

If you have something productive to add to this conversation, feel free to. If you have another approach to addressing this issue, do what Yakov Horowitz does, invest your life in it, and do it your way (publicizing whatever you want). You asked a question multiple times, you got an answer that you might or might not like. If you’d like, YH’s contact info is all over the internet, if he’d like to he’ll entertain your question. If you are really desperate, you can picket outside his house until you get an answer. But trolling YH in this thread adds nothing to the conversation other than disrupting it from going in productive directions, so please stop.

[yandmk]

https://mishpacha.com/a-place-of-healing/

[aygart]

Question:

I am not sure why you dafka pick on him?

Answer?

He was actually doing something for almost 2 decades when in the beginning the community's response was just to sweep it under the carpet.

[TimT]

Do not stand by idly when your friends blood is spilled. If you know there's an abuser at x school, how can you Halachically remain silent?

First of all nobody knows what he’s doing behind the scenes. Secondly, I’m no legal expert but it’s not so simple. Start here

[Definitions]

In all such stories I truly don't understand or comprehend why there's trauma. It's beyond me I simply don't understand it.

Nothing to do with not believing the victims. I believe them I just don't understand why that would cause somebody to go in to such a mental decline.

[sddd]

In all such stories I truly don't understand or comprehend why there's trauma. It's beyond me I simply don't understand it.

Nothing to do with not believing the victims. I believe them I just don't understand why that would cause somebody to go in to such a mental decline.

why does a slight push on a tree not affect it but a slight push on a sapling can either kill or alter its growth trajectory in a dramatic fashion?

And this isnt a slight push

[yelped]

In all such stories I truly don't understand or comprehend why there's trauma. It's beyond me I simply don't understand it.

Nothing to do with not believing the victims. I believe them I just don't understand why that would cause somebody to go in to such a mental decline.

I'm going to let someone more eloquent handle this, but you don't see why something like this can affect so many areas? Trust, guilt, belief, etc.

[EliJelly]

In all such stories I truly don't understand or comprehend why there's trauma. It's beyond me I simply don't understand it.

Nothing to do with not believing the victims. I believe them I just don't understand why that would cause somebody to go in to such a mental decline.

That's likely the core issue why there isn't enough sympathy and support for these victims. The average person (me included) cannot imagine what happened, what sexual abuse is all about, and frankly don't even want to picturize anything of the disgusting actions associated with it. They have no idea what urges sick people to behave sickly and maybe even have some pity on these people for being sick. It's very hard trying to put yourself in a situation you know nothing about and unfortunately what you get is that people don't understand the victims fully.

[AsherO]

That's likely the core issue why there isn't enough sympathy and support for these victims. The average person (me included) cannot imagine what happened, what sexual abuse is all about, and frankly don't even want to picturize anything of the disgusting actions associated with it. They have no idea what urges sick people to behave sickly and maybe even have some pity on these people for being sick. It's very hard trying to put yourself in a situation you know nothing about and unfortunately what you get is that people don't understand the victims fully.

I don’t understand, are you advocating for more explanations or less?

To me this is very simple even without getting into the details. Adults who abuse the authority/position over children to exploit them, leave those kids with severe emotional/mental injuries (even if you can’t comprehend it all), those adults should be held accountable for that.

[sguitarist18]

Even for adults, being raped is extremely traumatizing and can easily have a lifelong impact. For children, the impact is obviously even more profound.

[EliJelly]

I don’t understand, are you advocating for more explanations or less?

To me this is very simple even without getting into the details. Adults who abuse the authority/position over children to exploit them, leave those kids with severe emotional/mental injuries (even if you can’t comprehend it all), those adults should be held accountable for that.

I'm not looking for explanations. I fully understand the severe consequences that leaves behind, all I say is the fact that people cannot put themselves in the shoes of these victims, in contrast to other tragedies, is what makes this situation so much more difficult.

[gozalim]

In all such stories I truly don't understand or comprehend why there's trauma. It's beyond me I simply don't understand it.

Nothing to do with not believing the victims. I believe them I just don't understand why that would cause somebody to go in to such a mental decline.

watch:

it's aa very important 2 hrs, I think linked to elsewhere in this thread as well. in the middle somewhere, he explains pretty well what damage is done

[avromie7]

watch:

it's aa very important 2 hrs, I think linked to elsewhere in this thread as well. in the middle somewhere, he explains pretty well what damage is done

This video definitely helped me understand it more. Aside from that, I think this video should be mandatory for every parent.

[nucheiner]

This video definitely helped me understand it more. Aside from that, I think this video should be mandatory for every parent.

I agree that its a MUST before anyone becomes a licensed parent!

Regarding this topic of how to throw them to the dogs.

Listen to his opening point (at least.): The vast majority of cases are family members, usually young adolescents, abusing a younger child.

So moving forward:

We have this child, now adult who is a wreck and needs urgent help. We need to recognize these cases and get them help.

We need to educate parents how to protect children from these occurrences.

However in these kinds of cases, which are the vast majority (according to Rabbi Russel, a world class professional) in all likelihood this abuser is no longer an active threat to society and probably not a threat at all (I don’t know the stats or behavior trends). So how do we deal these unlikely repeaters?

Action is certainly necessary for cases where recurrence is possible. And as Rabbi Elefant recently said publicly, it needs to be clear zero tolerance.

[Yehuda57]

This video definitely helped me understand it more. Aside from that, I think this video should be mandatory for every parent.

I want to third, fourth, fifth, or whatever this. I've heard many talks on the subject, this one is brutally clear and eye opening, but above all, practical and empowering.

If anything is to come from this thread, every parent should watch this (along with the other videos posted).

[EliJelly]

If only I would be able to watch this so important video. YT is blocked

[S209]

However in these kinds of cases, which are the vast majority (according to Rabbi Russel, a world class professional) in all likelihood this abuser is no longer an active threat to society and probably not a threat at all (I don’t know the stats or behavior trends). So how do we deal these unlikely repeaters?

A prominent psychologist told a relative of mine that adolescent abusers who seek help early rarely become adult abusers. I would probably view a single act perpetrated by an adolescent as different (although the victim likely would not!) from the perspective of how to view the abuser.

Each case is different and there are shades of gray but it’s vital to remember that more often than not the victim(s) will still suffer for the rest of their life, no matter the circumstances.

[AsherO]

I'm not looking for explanations. I fully understand the severe consequences that leaves behind, all I say is the fact that people cannot put themselves in the shoes of these victims, in contrast to other tragedies, is what makes this situation so much more difficult.

Any parent should be able to evoke very deep emotions by imagining how they’d feel if it was R”L (and I don’t wish this on my worst enemy) their own child.

Granted, that isn’t stepping into the survivor’s shoes, but it should get the point across.

[Definitions]

Let me break out my question a bit, now that I watched the above video.

So there's a few types of cases in my mind. To simplify there's 4 factors. Violent/forced  vs non violent/not forced. Victim is young vs older. Let's skip the perpetrator for now.

Violent or by force that I can understand if someone develops fears or is "traumatized". Nonviolent or not forced is where I don't understand where this "trauma" is.

From the above video, all I'm hearing is simply related to religious values that will be affected. R' Russell's two points from what I understood are (around the 40 minute mark) 1 - the victim can develop unnatural attractions due to it. 2 - (which is the main point ) due to this premature exposure to new taavos the victim now has a much harder time dealing with religious values which in turn make them feel like outcasts to the system so they eventually leave it.

I wouldn't call that "trauma". Although I can see why in such a case it can then develop into a worse state of mind (which can then lead to drugs like R' Russell mentions). But I don't understand why this would affect a non-religious person or an older person for that matter that had previous knowledge of such things.