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I created an account to say this

I am a survivor of abuse

I tried to type up a longer, more detailed post but it got too hard. The bottom line is the following

There's no such thing as universal feelings, reactions, desires, needs that all victims share. Each one is an individual who suffered alone and carries the unique scars that stay with them and each one will react to future situations in life in their own way.

Therefore, there is no single response to abuse that will leave all victims feeling safe, secure, validated, supported, closure and everything else all the well meaning people here want to give them.

However, I think there is a single response that would leave all victims feeling further pain and trauma and that is "It can't be."

Rabbi Shimon Russell - How to Safeguard and Protect our Children

https://youtu.be/fefqSvXf0JI


« Last edited by Yehuda57 on January 12, 2022, 05:44:00 PM »

Author Topic: Chaim Walder dies  (Read 68250 times)

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #900 on: January 04, 2022, 07:10:23 PM »
https://mishpacha.com/for-this-we-weep/

Excellent piece

Quote from: Rabbi Lopiansky
I need to break the news to you: There is no organization called ďthe rabbanim.Ē There are thousands of rabbanim, rebbeim, ramim, each inundated with the needs and demands of their communities and talmidim. But each one is a yachid, overwhelmed by the particular needs of his charges.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #901 on: January 04, 2022, 07:17:08 PM »
CMIIW, he knows of abusers but doesn't release the list because he is worried of getting sued?

Iíll correct you then, because you ARE wrong. Regardless of what he does or doesnít know, since neither you nor I know what he does or doesnít know.

He is a person who has devoted his life to helping others including abuse victims.

You OTOH are an anonymous stranger on the internet, trolling an important topic instead of doing something productive, telling people whoíve devoted their lives to helping people that unless they do it your way theyíre doing nothing (or worse, harming others).

If you have something productive to add to this conversation, feel free to. If you have another approach to addressing this issue, do what Yakov Horowitz does, invest your life in it, and do it your way (publicizing whatever you want). You asked a question multiple times, you got an answer that you might or might not like. If youíd like, YHís contact info is all over the internet, if heíd like to heíll entertain your question. If you are really desperate, you can picket outside his house until you get an answer. But trolling YH in this thread adds nothing to the conversation other than disrupting it from going in productive directions, so please stop.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2022, 07:30:40 PM by AsherO »

Offline yandmk

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #902 on: January 04, 2022, 07:29:23 PM »

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #903 on: January 04, 2022, 08:08:10 PM »
Question:


I am not sure why you dafka pick on him?

Answer?
He was actually doing something for almost 2 decades when in the beginning the community's response was just to sweep it under the carpet.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline TimT

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #904 on: January 04, 2022, 08:09:34 PM »
Do not stand by idly when your friends blood is spilled. If you know there's an abuser at x school, how can you Halachically remain silent?
First of all nobody knows what heís doing behind the scenes. Secondly, Iím no legal expert but itís not so simple. Start here

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #905 on: January 04, 2022, 09:02:48 PM »
In all such stories I truly don't understand or comprehend why there's trauma. It's beyond me I simply don't understand it.

Nothing to do with not believing the victims. I believe them I just don't understand why that would cause somebody to go in to such a mental decline.

Offline sddd

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #906 on: January 04, 2022, 09:08:13 PM »
In all such stories I truly don't understand or comprehend why there's trauma. It's beyond me I simply don't understand it.

Nothing to do with not believing the victims. I believe them I just don't understand why that would cause somebody to go in to such a mental decline.

why does a slight push on a tree not affect it but a slight push on a sapling can either kill or alter its growth trajectory in a dramatic fashion?

And this isnt a slight push

Offline yelped

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #907 on: January 04, 2022, 09:09:57 PM »
In all such stories I truly don't understand or comprehend why there's trauma. It's beyond me I simply don't understand it.

Nothing to do with not believing the victims. I believe them I just don't understand why that would cause somebody to go in to such a mental decline.
I'm going to let someone more eloquent handle this, but you don't see why something like this can affect so many areas? Trust, guilt, belief, etc.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #908 on: January 04, 2022, 09:22:42 PM »
In all such stories I truly don't understand or comprehend why there's trauma. It's beyond me I simply don't understand it.

Nothing to do with not believing the victims. I believe them I just don't understand why that would cause somebody to go in to such a mental decline.
That's likely the core issue why there isn't enough sympathy and support for these victims. The average person (me included) cannot imagine what happened, what sexual abuse is all about, and frankly don't even want to picturize anything of the disgusting actions associated with it. They have no idea what urges sick people to behave sickly and maybe even have some pity on these people for being sick. It's very hard trying to put yourself in a situation you know nothing about and unfortunately what you get is that people don't understand the victims fully.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #909 on: January 04, 2022, 09:26:18 PM »
That's likely the core issue why there isn't enough sympathy and support for these victims. The average person (me included) cannot imagine what happened, what sexual abuse is all about, and frankly don't even want to picturize anything of the disgusting actions associated with it. They have no idea what urges sick people to behave sickly and maybe even have some pity on these people for being sick. It's very hard trying to put yourself in a situation you know nothing about and unfortunately what you get is that people don't understand the victims fully.

I donít understand, are you advocating for more explanations or less?

To me this is very simple even without getting into the details. Adults who abuse the authority/position over children to exploit them, leave those kids with severe emotional/mental injuries (even if you canít comprehend it all), those adults should be held accountable for that.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #910 on: January 04, 2022, 09:30:33 PM »
Even for adults, being raped is extremely traumatizing and can easily have a lifelong impact. For children, the impact is obviously even more profound.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #911 on: January 04, 2022, 09:31:16 PM »
I donít understand, are you advocating for more explanations or less?

To me this is very simple even without getting into the details. Adults who abuse the authority/position over children to exploit them, leave those kids with severe emotional/mental injuries (even if you canít comprehend it all), those adults should be held accountable for that.
I'm not looking for explanations. I fully understand the severe consequences that leaves behind, all I say is the fact that people cannot put themselves in the shoes of these victims, in contrast to other tragedies, is what makes this situation so much more difficult.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #912 on: January 04, 2022, 09:44:33 PM »
In all such stories I truly don't understand or comprehend why there's trauma. It's beyond me I simply don't understand it.

Nothing to do with not believing the victims. I believe them I just don't understand why that would cause somebody to go in to such a mental decline.
watch:

it's aa very important 2 hrs, I think linked to elsewhere in this thread as well. in the middle somewhere, he explains pretty well what damage is done

Offline avromie7

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #913 on: January 04, 2022, 10:00:22 PM »
watch:

it's aa very important 2 hrs, I think linked to elsewhere in this thread as well. in the middle somewhere, he explains pretty well what damage is done
This video definitely helped me understand it more. Aside from that, I think this video should be mandatory for every parent.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #914 on: January 04, 2022, 11:21:22 PM »
This video definitely helped me understand it more. Aside from that, I think this video should be mandatory for every parent.
I agree that its a MUST before anyone becomes a licensed parent!

Regarding this topic of how to throw them to the dogs.

Listen to his opening point (at least.): The vast majority of cases are family members, usually young adolescents, abusing a younger child.

So moving forward:

We have this child, now adult who is a wreck and needs urgent help. We need to recognize these cases and get them help.

We need to educate parents how to protect children from these occurrences.

However in these kinds of cases, which are the vast majority (according to Rabbi Russel, a world class professional) in all likelihood this abuser is no longer an active threat to society and probably not a threat at all (I donít know the stats or behavior trends). So how do we deal these unlikely repeaters?

Action is certainly necessary for cases where recurrence is possible. And as Rabbi Elefant recently said publicly, it needs to be clear zero tolerance.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #915 on: January 04, 2022, 11:29:32 PM »
This video definitely helped me understand it more. Aside from that, I think this video should be mandatory for every parent.

I want to third, fourth, fifth, or whatever this. I've heard many talks on the subject, this one is brutally clear and eye opening, but above all, practical and empowering.

If anything is to come from this thread, every parent should watch this (along with the other videos posted).
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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #916 on: January 05, 2022, 12:00:02 AM »
If only I would be able to watch this so important video. YT is blocked :(

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #917 on: January 05, 2022, 12:08:48 AM »
However in these kinds of cases, which are the vast majority (according to Rabbi Russel, a world class professional) in all likelihood this abuser is no longer an active threat to society and probably not a threat at all (I donít know the stats or behavior trends). So how do we deal these unlikely repeaters?
A prominent psychologist told a relative of mine that adolescent abusers who seek help early rarely become adult abusers. I would probably view a single act perpetrated by an adolescent as different (although the victim likely would not!) from the perspective of how to view the abuser.

Each case is different and there are shades of gray but itís vital to remember that more often than not the victim(s) will still suffer for the rest of their life, no matter the circumstances.
Quote from: YitzyS
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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #918 on: January 05, 2022, 12:09:48 AM »
I'm not looking for explanations. I fully understand the severe consequences that leaves behind, all I say is the fact that people cannot put themselves in the shoes of these victims, in contrast to other tragedies, is what makes this situation so much more difficult.

Any parent should be able to evoke very deep emotions by imagining how theyíd feel if it was RĒL (and I donít wish this on my worst enemy) their own child.

Granted, that isnít stepping into the survivorís shoes, but it should get the point across.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #919 on: January 05, 2022, 12:12:14 AM »
Let me break out my question a bit, now that I watched the above video.

So there's a few types of cases in my mind. To simplify there's 4 factors. Violent/forced  vs non violent/not forced. Victim is young vs older. Let's skip the perpetrator for now.

Violent or by force that I can understand if someone develops fears or is "traumatized". Nonviolent or not forced is where I don't understand where this "trauma" is.

From the above video, all I'm hearing is simply related to religious values that will be affected. R' Russell's two points from what I understood are (around the 40 minute mark) 1 - the victim can develop unnatural attractions due to it. 2 - (which is the main point ) due to this premature exposure to new taavos the victim now has a much harder time dealing with religious values which in turn make them feel like outcasts to the system so they eventually leave it.

I wouldn't call that "trauma". Although I can see why in such a case it can then develop into a worse state of mind (which can then lead to drugs like R' Russell mentions). But I don't understand why this would affect a non-religious person or an older person for that matter that had previous knowledge of such things.