Chaim Walder dies

[VacationLover]

Right, we heard that already, “one tweet” isn’t sufficient IYHO to establish that, what is?

Maybe he can explain his side to a BD, and they will accept it.

If he did sincere תשובה, there is no reason to close his business for this (Unless verified by a BD). He is not a therapist where there is an ongoing danger.

[YossieW]

Maybe he can explain his side to a BD, and they will accept it.

If he did sincere תשובה, there is no reason to close his business for this (Unless verified by a BD). He is not a therapist where there is an ongoing danger.

if he allegedly molested multiple boys what תשובה can one do that shows he will not do it again and is not a danger that you would feel comfortable habing him to perform at your childs Bar Mitzvah or wedding?

[aygart]

Maybe he can explain his side to a BD, and they will accept it.

If he did sincere תשובה, there is no reason to close his business for this (Unless verified by a BD). He is not a therapist where there is an ongoing danger.

Why do you think only a therapist is an ongoing danger?

[zh cohen]

To complete your thought - the recording would've had to have been recorded in 2000 (at the absolute latest) for him to have been a minor 18 years prior. The WoS has his brith year as 1963.

He didn't mention 18 years, the investigator did.

[aygart]

He didn't mention 18 years, the investigator did.

So

On the other hand it is difficult to say that artists should be pressured to separate from him based on a short edited clip on Twitter alone. It seems from this thread that this was known and around for a number of years though. That seems like there should be much more to the story.

[zh cohen]

So

I don't know who the investigator is, so I don't know how credible the allegations he is making are.

I am focusing on his admission, and trying to figure out what it is that he is admitting to. It is possible that he is admitting to something that happened more than 18 years earlier

[VacationLover]

Why do you think only a therapist is an ongoing danger?

His business does not make him a bigger danger (if all is true) than any other business. And as opposed to a therapist that sees kids and vulnerable people 1 on 1, his business as nothing close to a danger to society 

[aygart]

I don't know who the investigator is, so I don't know how credible the allegations he is making are.

I am focusing on his admission, and trying to figure out what it is that he is admitting to. It is possible that he is admitting to something that happened more than 18 years earlier

Yes this clip alone has vagaries to it and is more for the beginning of an investigation than the entire thing.

[VacationLover]

if he allegedly molested multiple boys

Are you sure that what you wrote is true? From my understanding, it is not 100% clear.
If so what happened to us? We hear an allegation that was not verified by a BD etc. and we want to close his business? Did anyone think about his family?

[aygart]

His business does not make him a bigger danger (if all is true) than any other business. And as opposed to a therapist that sees kids and vulnerable people 1 on 1, his business as nothing close to a danger to society

Just because his business doesn't give him the same access doesn't mean that he is not a danger. Any person in shul can gain a kid's trust.

[VacationLover]

Yes this clip alone has vagaries to it and is more for the beginning of an investigation than the entire thing.

Perhaps the smartest thing is to refrain from calling him out publicly and try to close his business, and let there be an investigation.

[VacationLover]

Just because his business doesn't give him the same access doesn't mean that he is not a danger. Any person in shul can gain a kid's trust.

Correct. But, in order for society to go on without numerous false accusations, and in order to stick to Halacha, it's unfair to bury someone before there is an official investigation that confirmed it.

[zh cohen]

if he allegedly molested multiple boys what תשובה can one do that shows he will not do it again and is not a danger that you would feel comfortable habing him to perform at your childs Bar Mitzvah or wedding?

Part of it would be having safeguards (which are unique based on the specifics of the crime).

For some crimes that might be the Baal teshuva telling a certain number of people who will be at the event to keep an eye on him to be sure he is not alone with children.

[WonderingYid]

Maybe start with:

“Netanel Zellis-Paley
@wordpaley
·

 Here is a list of singers who know about the recording and continue to work with him:

Mordechai Shapiro (
@MordyShapiro
)

Simcha Leiner (
@SimchaLeiner
; worked with him twice just last week)

Benny Friedman (
@BennysMusic
)

Beri Weber (
@BeriWeber
)

Shulem Lemmer (
@IamShulem
)

Shloime Daskal (
@DaskalShloime
)

Avraham Fried (yes, that one)

Eli Schwebel (yes, the one who did song with
@Amudim
 dedicated to abuse victims)

Moshe Tischler

Uri Davidi

Shimmy Markowitz

Duvid Feder

Yedidim Choir

Avi Perets

Yitz Henkin

Ohad Moskowitz

Shapiro and Leiner are probably in the top 3 most recognizable singers in the wider Orthodox community. They charge well upwards of 10K per wedding. And I’m almost certain the upcoming
@CampHASC
 concert, the “biggest event in Jewish music,”will feature at least one on that list.

If you want evidence they all continue to work with Teitelbaum, just go to his Instagram (
@aaronteitelbaum
). Every event he does he tags them and every other vendor he works with. There are a LOT of people complicit in covering up for his abuse. Including people on this website.


-The Jewish Link network of local newspapers (
@JLinkExpanded
) features a large Teitelbaum ad each week. They are aware of the recording and were given an opportunity to get more background on it. (It was opposite an editorial on Chaim Walder last week. Yuuuup.)“

Why didn't Amudim say somthing thing to him?

[Yehuda57]

Interestingly, I got mixed feelings from hearing the recording. To me it sounded like he was admitting guilt to a single case in which he felt remorse - to the point that he wasn't trying to hide it.

Do you know any unrepentant molester who would admit doing it? The admission tells me that there is something different about this case, but I'm not sure exactly what.

And there are punkt multiple accusations against a guy who happens to be remorseful about doing things that there is absolutely no way to possibly misconstrue?

It's terribly sad, but he admitted to molesting a teenage boy, and there is at least one other accusation for the same behavior by another person, and for all the misgivings about JCW, one person on the wall who was innocent was taken down.

BTW, I know that one of his sons has a DDF account and reads regularly

Now know that there are many survivors reading as well. And they are reading that every case that comes up with multiple allegations, including one with a recorded admission, and yet people will still rally around protecting the abuser. Imagine their pain and suffering.

I'm truly sorry for his family. Without getting into detail, I've seen the affects on the wife and children of publicly shamed abusers first hand. It's awful. Life and soul destroying. That, too, is on the abuser.

Just because his business doesn't give him the same access doesn't mean that he is not a danger. Any person in shul can gain a kid's trust.

Exactly. One of the people in the most recent Headlines episode made this point. If the guy is hanging around shul and doesn't have a position with kids, he can still build a relationship with kids, just by asking for or pouring a cup of soda, etc.

Part of it would be having safeguards (which are unique based on the specifics of the crime).

For some crimes that might be the Baal teshuva telling a certain number of people who will be at the event to keep an eye on him to be sure he is not alone with children.

There's also the pain and suffering every survivor feels being at an event with his name plastered all over the stage. Every time I've seen a video with his name in the past couple of years I've immidiately thought of the child abuse allegations. I can't imagine the trauma an abuse survivor would feel.

[WonderingYid]

Perhaps the smartest thing is to refrain from calling him out publicly and try to close his business, and let there be an investigation.

By who?

[gozalim]

Part of it would be having safeguards (which are unique based on the specifics of the crime).

For some crimes that might be the Baal teshuva telling a certain number of people who will be at the event to keep an eye on him to be sure he is not alone with children.

the halacha of teshuvah for a butcher caught selling treif comes to mind

[VacationLover]

Yehuda,
You seem like a smart person.
Am I wrong that we aren't allowed to publicly discuss his name and close his business before the allegations are confirmed by a BD, Dayan, Court. Etc?

I believe there is a difference between protecting the abuser  vs. Protecting people from allegations before it is confirmed.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

[VacationLover]

By who?

Anyone reputable, or court.
You don't know where to start? At the minimum speak to his Rav and show the proof.
There is feelings and there is Halacha

[Yehuda57]

Yehuda,
You seem like a smart person.
Am I wrong that we aren't allowed to publicly discuss his name and close his business before the allegations are confirmed by a BD, Dayan, Court. Etc?

I believe there is a difference between protecting the abuser  vs. Protecting people from allegations before it is confirmed.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

I appreciate the compliment. I'm no rav, and no expert on the sugya. In the past week or so I've heard from numerous Rabanim from virtually every type of Chareidi community. All are in agreement that one need not that high a standard of eidus for a rumor to be established.

Where there to be a single accusation, you would be entirely correct, IMHO, but as is wont to happen in these instances, where there is one (real) victim, there are numerous.

For years there have been allegations, were they to be false, surely the defense would be just as public by those who have been protecting him?

So yes, I believe the allegations.

I'm not saying we have to destroy his business, neither have I said that. I did say that if a widely respected leader said he should be boycotted, he would be. I was countering the claims of the tweeter that AT is some sort "protected species" in the community.