Author Topic: False allegations  (Read 6124 times)

Offline VacationLover

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #100 on: January 11, 2022, 10:34:17 PM »
Can we get like a summary of the convo every 50 posts or so so I know where this thread is up to? :-\
- we need more awareness of this issue in our community
-we need to believe the victim and support them in every way possible
-we need to teach our children the basics of staying far from strangers or people who are too friendly and touchy.
-regarding going public AYLOR
-regarding revenge AYLOR
-*that* thread is only to support the victims and bring awareness to abusers.

Offline JlmBoi

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #101 on: January 12, 2022, 01:18:02 AM »


The only problem is that the vast majority of the community probably 99% of them will never in thier lifetime have or know any survivor to believe and validate.
Are you living in a cave? Even if this has some degree of truth, it's bc of the prevailing attitude.
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Offline S209

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #102 on: January 12, 2022, 11:52:53 AM »
Are you living in a cave? Even if this has some degree of truth, it's bc of the prevailing attitude.
Exactly. Everyone knows plenty of survivors IRL, you just don’t know they are because they’re afraid of your reaction.

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #103 on: January 12, 2022, 12:20:13 PM »
Exactly. Everyone knows plenty of survivors IRL, you just don’t know they are because they’re afraid of your reaction.

This is an important part of this conversation. Awareness and sensitivity actually foster an environment where people can open up about all kinds of struggles. People who carry those things inside are the first to notice those people, will take comfort in their presence even without engaging them, and will naturally be drawn toward them.

Online sguitarist18

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #104 on: January 12, 2022, 01:39:51 PM »
Exactly. Everyone knows plenty of survivors IRL, you just don’t know they are because they’re afraid of your reaction.

Scary and heartbreaking, but +1. 1 molester in a camp or yeshiva can harm hundreds of children. And there have been such people in (at least) many camps.

Online Ver hut gazugt

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #105 on: January 12, 2022, 04:07:54 PM »
Scary and heartbreaking, but +1. 1 molester in a camp or yeshiva can harm hundreds of children. And there have been such people in (at least) many camps.
could be but I think it’s a misconception that the abusers are strangers. The majority or maybe even the vast majority of cases are within the family. I would show research but it’s all over the place each one show different numbers. I think amudim did an internal poll and last I heard it was over 50%.

Offline VacationLover

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #106 on: January 12, 2022, 07:07:53 PM »
could be but I think it’s a misconception that the abusers are strangers. The majority or maybe even the vast majority of cases are within the family. I would show research but it’s all over the place each one show different numbers. I think amudim did an internal poll and last I heard it was over 50%.
He says Vast majority of cases are within family setting. (Video was posted upthread)
 watch:

Offline Randomex

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #107 on: January 12, 2022, 08:32:11 PM »
He says vast majority of cases are within family setting.

IIRC, he does not say that.
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Offline nbfromnj

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #108 on: January 12, 2022, 08:57:23 PM »
IIRC, he does not say that.

at 55 minutes in he says 90% of abuse in our kehillahs is older children to younger children.
about 7 minutes later he says that most girls are abused by an older brother or other family member or very close friend

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #109 on: January 13, 2022, 02:41:25 AM »
What about Nechemia Weberman?

Accused of horrific crimes by one accuser with a community adamant that's he was innocent.

Who do you believe?
What do you do in such a scenario?

Offline mendelk

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #110 on: January 13, 2022, 03:19:15 AM »
He wasn’t just <b>accused</b> of sexually abusing a 12 year old. He was <b>convicted</b>.

The fact that a community decides to close their eyes doesn’t change that.

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #111 on: January 13, 2022, 07:55:39 AM »
He wasn’t just <b>accused</b> of sexually abusing a 12 year old. He was <b>convicted</b>.

The fact that a community decides to close their eyes doesn’t change that.

I guess his accuser is fortunate Weberman didn’t have” a jury of his peers” or he would have walked R”L.

Additionally, with a community attitude like that, and the suffering piled on accusers and their families, you (efflpetzel) think anyone else would come forward to corroborate?

Offline neveryou

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #112 on: January 13, 2022, 08:38:53 AM »
What about Nechemia Weberman?

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« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 08:46:05 AM by neveryou »

Online Yehuda57

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #113 on: January 13, 2022, 09:03:33 AM »
What about Nechemia Weberman?

Accused of horrific crimes by one accuser with a community adamant that's he was innocent.

Who do you believe?
What do you do in such a scenario?
You mean the unlicensed therapist who admitted to spending considerable time in private with his teenage female "patients"?

The Daily News reported 10 other victims besides the one that took it to court. Rabbi Horowitz mentioned victims in the plural.

Great example. The victims were tormented, harassed, and are still not believed to this day by many despite the conviction. There were communal fundraisers for him, he had plenty of supporters in the courtroom, and he was painted as a saint despite the eminently credible allegations. We still have no idea how many victims there were because all but one were too afraid to speak up.

How many kids did he abuse because they were afraid to talk? How many victims of other abusers watched that victim get publicly humiliated and decided they want no part of that and kept silent? How many more kids need to get abused because all of a sudden we have to be extremely machmir about lashon hara but extremely meikil on hatzalas nefashos?

This is like bizarro land.
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Offline S209

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #114 on: January 13, 2022, 09:28:11 AM »
What about Nechemia Weberman?

Accused of horrific crimes by one accuser with a community adamant that's he was innocent.

Who do you believe?
What do you do in such a scenario?
Great question, I’m glad you asked. Why don’t we revisit the facts in that case?

First, the fact that you still believe “there was only one accuser” shows a certain willful blindness (likely because of whatever your relationship is with Satmar).

Quote
Convicted sex assaulter Nechemya Weberman abused many other females, News finds
Oren Yaniv
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |

Jan 20, 2013 at 2:00 AM

She wasn't the only one.

Nechemya Weberman, the unlicensed Hasidic counselor slated to be sentenced Tuesday for sexually abusing a Brooklyn girl, violated at least 10 others — including teens and married women he counseled, a Daily News investigation revealed.

The self-proclaimed religious adviser even invoked Kabbalah — a form of Jewish mysticism — to convince his victims that having sex with him was kosher.

"He's a monster," said a man whose daughter was repeatedly brutalized by Weberman a couple of years before the victim at trial came forward.

The beautiful, 18-year-old Brooklyn woman testified how Weberman, 54, touched her private parts, forced her to <redacted> and <redacted> during a three-year period that started when she was only 12. The disgraced Satmar counselor was convicted of all 59 counts against him last month.

Other women who were sexually abused by Weberman refused to speak publicly for fear of retribution. But those close to them described a pattern of nurturing and grooming where he would shower outcast teens with attention, take them on road trips — and even buy them lingerie.

He told one young victim, "That 'I learned Kabbalah and we were a couple in another incarnation,' " said a friend of the woman.

Rabbi Yakov Horowitz, who runs a Jewish youth program, said he was told by victims Weberman used the Kabbalah line on them too.

"The intimate acts he was performing were intended as a form of repentance for sins committed in their previous lifetimes," said Horowitz.

He would tell teens who had been deemed troublemakers for being immodest, "No one will ever believe messed-up kids like them," said Horowitz.

"A master manipulator," said Rhonnie Jaus, chief of the sex crimes division at the Brooklyn district attorney's office.

Weberman used women's lowly standing in the ultra-Orthodox community to prey on the vulnerable, sources said.

"He is probably the only male who has ever given them the time of day and listened to them," said a law enforcement source. "He had a huge amount of psychological hold over them."

The father who spoke to The News about his daughter's ordeal refused to give details about what was done to her, but other sources said her experience was similar to the sick deviations described by the victim at trial.

"Not only the sexual abuse," the father said, "but the psychological abuse. . . . Why?"

He said his strong religious beliefs kept him from reporting Weberman when he heard of the attacks.

The father was assured that Weberman would stop counseling girls — and was shocked when charges were lodged against the counselor in February 2011.

The News found five additional people who said they were aware of Weberman's misconduct years before he was arrested.

The criminal case finally came about, sources said, after the victim was told by friends that her adviser "was a known pervert."

"It's a common occurrence in cases we deal with," said Kevin O'Donnell, the lead prosecutor in the case. "Kids can compartmentalize, justify, somehow live with their own abuse and most of them think it's happening to them only and nobody else."

He added that hearing of other victims "frequently prompts someone to come forward."

No other alleged victim has been willing to press charges against Weberman — out of fear of being ostracized or because the statute of limitation had expired.

"It's very difficult to go with only one victim. We always want to have more than one victim," Jaus said. "And when you know there are more out there, it is hard, very hard . . . but you do the best you can."

Prosecutors have stated in court they are aware of four married women and two underaged girls who were bedded by Weberman. The News has since found four more.

The prosecution attempted at trial to have the jury hear from other Weberman victims — including a woman who had sexual relations with him while he was her marriage counselor. She refused to speak with The News.

Weberman, who is facing 117 years in prison, declined to meet a reporter at the Manhattan lockup where he's being held.

His defense team — which vowed to appeal — also complained about being precluded from presenting certain evidence.

"I don't think they have other victims," defense lawyer Michael Farkas said of prosecutors after the trial ended.

"A lot of people were willing to give them information and I am very suspicious [of that information]."

The list of victims identified by prosecutors and found by The News includes at least four married women now ranging in age from their 20s to their 40s — three of whom he counseled. The other lived in his building.

The other six victims are not married, but all of them went to him initially for counseling.

One of the witnesses the defense called to the stand was a runaway who ended up living in Weberman's office for three years. She denied any inappropriate behavior on his part, even when grilled by prosecutors about getting caught in a compromising position with him.

"He still has her in his grip," said a friend of hers.

With Simone Weichselbaum

Second, the man was convicted in court. Do you think that’s so simple? Some of the evidence presented at trial (despite the insane harassment and/or bribery anyone who dared testify for the defense underwent, thus obviously limiting the available witness pool) included a social worker who worked with her at the time and his own admittance to triple locking the room where he met with her for the course of three years as well as driving her alone in a car upstate and elsewhere. This was a man who admittedly flagrantly violated the laws of Yichud with who knows how many girls and women over the years. He also admitted to using Tzedaka money to make purchases at a lingerie shop (which she says was for her).

The accuser testified for 15 hours on the stand, confronting him directly. This was at the cost of her family being shunned and cousins being thrown out of school. One accuser, you say? How exactly do you plan on having other accusers come forward with an attitude like that?

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #115 on: January 13, 2022, 09:37:36 AM »
You mean the unlicensed therapist who admitted to spending considerable time in private with his teenage female "patients"?

The Daily News reported 10 other victims besides the one that took it to court. Rabbi Horowitz mentioned victims in the plural.
I brought up his case because in this thread & in the cw thread everyone makes the point about the amount of accusers coming forward,

iirc in this case you had one accusation/testimony, no Beis din.

His entire community rallied around him, it was them vs the secular press

If you decide a person's guilt based on the amount of people coming forward them this case falls way short.

It's a dangerous argument to make.

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #116 on: January 13, 2022, 09:41:55 AM »
Great question, I’m glad you asked. Why don’t we revisit the facts in that case?

First, the fact that you still believe “there was only one accuser” shows a certain willful blindness (likely because of whatever your relationship is with Satmar).

Second, the man was convicted in court. Do you think that’s so simple? Some of the evidence presented at trial (despite the insane harassment and/or bribery anyone who dared testify for the defense underwent, thus obviously limiting the available witness pool) included a social worker who worked with her at the time and his own admittance to triple locking the room where he met with her for the course of three years as well as driving her alone in a car upstate and elsewhere. This was a man who admittedly flagrantly violated the laws of Yichud with who knows how many girls and women over the years. He also admitted to using Tzedaka money to make purchases at a lingerie shop (which she says was for her).

The accuser testified for 15 hours on the stand, confronting him directly. This was at the cost of her family being shunned and cousins being thrown out of school. One accuser, you say? How exactly do you plan on having other accusers come forward with an attitude like that?
Let me be clear, I'm not defending him.

Merely repeating the debate that was raging 10 years ago

Offline S209

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #117 on: January 13, 2022, 09:43:23 AM »
I brought up his case because in this thread & in the cw thread everyone makes the point about the amount of accusers coming forward,

iirc in this case you had one accusation/testimony, no Beis din.

His entire community rallied around him, it was them vs the secular press

If you decide a person's guilt based on the amount of people coming forward them this case falls way short.

It's a dangerous argument to make.
No, even with just one accuser in the great majority of cases the accusation is true (see upthread for some statistics on false accusations with estimates from 2-30%, meaning anywhere between 70% to 98% of allegations are true). However, with multiple accusers it is just about guaranteed to be true.

Furthermore in this case there were at least 10 accusers. “Accusers” doesn’t just mean someone who took the stand (very few victims agree to take the stand especially in our communities). Accusers means people who come forward to anyone. See the article I posted.

Offline S209

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Re: False allegations
« Reply #118 on: January 13, 2022, 09:44:11 AM »
Let me be clear, I'm not defending him.

Merely repeating the debate that was raging 10 years ago
The fact that there was any debate whatsoever only highlights how poorly accusations have been handled. Hopefully things are/will be changing.

You won’t find anyone who know anything about abuse who would say there is even a shred of doubt regarding Weberman’s guilt. But you won’t hear about that.

Offline efflpetzel

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False allegations
« Reply #119 on: January 13, 2022, 09:49:04 AM »
The fact that there was any debate whatsoever only highlights how poorly accusations have been handled. Hopefully things are/will be changing.
It wasn't really a debate, the vast majority of the chassidish velt saw him as a scapegoat.

It's wishful thinking that things have changed, after his sentence on 103 years everyone was pointing to that as the reason we can't go to secular authorities