Poll

One year in, what do you think actually happened that day?

A. False-flag operation by the "deep state" to take down Trump
2 (10%)
B. Maybe not a coordinated false-flag, but most of the agitators seem to be feds
3 (15%)
C. Preplanned insurrection by right-wing extremists
2 (10%)
D. Spontaneus riot motivated by Trump's call for violence
5 (25%)
E. Both C&D
6 (30%)
F. An attempt to overturn the fair and legal election of a US President
2 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Voting closed: January 13, 2022, 12:48:51 AM

Author Topic: 1/6 Fedsurrection?  (Read 37493 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #200 on: February 15, 2022, 08:48:01 AM »
Then you haven't been paying attention. The only good he does is confirming (or stopping the confirmation of) judges.
Let me get this straight. He is only good at probably the most important job?

I guess he is terrible at passing/stopping legislation?

I don't even like the guy but recognize he was/is one of the most effective leaders.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half
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Offline whYME

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #201 on: February 15, 2022, 02:13:48 PM »
Was just pointing out no matter which way they go they get accused of being part of a conspiracy.
But the point is it's still going in the same direction. Him (Rhodes) being arrested/charged now doesn't answer the questions.
And this is not moving the goalposts. In the first video I posted, where Beatty is making his arguments, he makes it very clear that it's not just a matter of him not being having been arrested and even if he does end up getting arrested/charged it doesn't necessarily change anything.

So McConnell is part of the "deep state"? I didn't get that memo.  :)
Would you agree he'd be very happy with Trump being taken out of the picture?

Offline whYME

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #202 on: February 15, 2022, 02:15:00 PM »
I don't even like the guy but recognize he was/is one of the most effective leaders.
Agreed

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #203 on: February 15, 2022, 02:54:55 PM »
Would you agree he'd be very happy with Trump being taken out of the picture?
Of course. So, if you don't like this scumbag, draft dodging, racist, sexist past president you are part of the "deep state"?
 
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Offline zh cohen

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Offline zh cohen

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #205 on: June 10, 2022, 01:10:28 AM »
Thousands crossed the barriers. You want them all arrested for this?So moving a barrier is destruction of property? Link to this even happening. He said to peacefully enter the Capital. If that is a crime, I would assume you want Trump arrested also?

You just gave pretzels a bad name with this non-sense.  :)

The FBI just arrested a leading Republican candidate for MI governor, for being at the capitol on 1/6. He is not even being accused of going into the building.

He did less than Epps, and is being charged.

Can we all agree that the law is not being fairly and equally applied?

And is it a coincidence that the arrest happened to take place the day before the Dems prime time show trial?

Offline yelped

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Offline zh cohen

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #207 on: June 28, 2022, 08:58:17 PM »
Is everyone on the J6 committee so stupid that they believed Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony? Or do they just think that their target audience is that stupid?

Offline Sam 77

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #208 on: June 28, 2022, 08:59:11 PM »
Is everyone on the J6 committee so stupid that they believed Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony? Or do they just think that their target audience is that stupid?
Why shouldn't they believe her?

Offline neveryou

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #209 on: June 28, 2022, 09:00:50 PM »
Is everyone on the J6 committee so stupid that they believed Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony? Or do they just think that their target audience is that stupid?
If anything her hearsay testimony today helped trump out.

No normal person believes this

Offline zh cohen

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #210 on: June 28, 2022, 09:11:20 PM »
Why shouldn't they believe her?

Because she is lying?

For example;

Quote
Peter Alexander @PeterAlexander
A source close to the Secret Service tells me both Bobby Engel, the lead agent, and the presidential limousine/SUV driver are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was assaulted and that Mr. Trump never lunged for the steering wheel.

Offline Sam 77

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #211 on: June 28, 2022, 09:12:19 PM »
Because she is lying?

For example;
Okay thanks just trying to understand the full story.

Offline biobook

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #212 on: June 28, 2022, 09:19:03 PM »
Because she is lying?

For example;
What did she say that you think is a lie?

Offline R.A.T.

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #213 on: June 28, 2022, 09:33:11 PM »
Okay thanks just trying to understand the full story.
You need to watch the hearings for that.
Here is what someone who knows her well said.
White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney: I know her. I don't think she is lying.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #214 on: June 28, 2022, 11:49:18 PM »

Offline biobook

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #215 on: June 29, 2022, 01:06:47 AM »

Cassie says under oath that Ornato told her something.
Gabby tweets ...that Josh says ...that a USSS official says ...that Ornato says that he didn't. 

Why would you find Gabby's statement more credible than Cassie's?

Ornato was already interviewed by the committee, and they invited him (and others) to return if they remember something or want to clarify something, so perhaps he'll testify under oath again soon.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #216 on: June 29, 2022, 06:52:15 AM »


Why would you find Gabby's statement more credible than Cassie's?

Because the story sounds like something out of the fevered dream of someone with a loose grip on reality. Also the SS also is saying it never happened.


Ornato was already interviewed by the committee

This makes her story even less believable. They interviewed the alleged source of the story, and it didn't come up?

ETA: It also seems obvious that with all of the witnesses they spoke to, someone would have mentioned this story before now.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 08:24:45 AM by zh cohen »

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #217 on: June 29, 2022, 12:21:12 PM »
I have not been following the hearing, nor know all the details and ins and outs, but I did see that the Secret service is saying on record that the agents are willing to testify under oath that he didn't grab the steering wheel or assault any agents. But they do say - again, on record - that Trump was "irate" and wanted to be driven to the Capitol.

So jumping on something she said for being false when she clearly said it was hearsay and then proving the overall story to be true is quite the self-own IMHO.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #218 on: June 29, 2022, 12:31:53 PM »
Trump was "irate" and wanted to be driven to the Capitol.

We all knew this. It was reported at the time, and I don't think anyone denied it. IIRC Trump said from the podium that he was going to march along with everyone to the Capitol.

The reason the scheduled the surprise hearing was because of her "bombshell" new revelations.

When those turn out to be obviously false, and the person she claims told her about it denies ever saying such a thing, that says something about her credibility and, more importantly, the credibility of those who believed and promoted her claims

Offline biobook

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Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #219 on: June 29, 2022, 01:51:30 PM »
Because the story sounds like something out of the fevered dream of someone with a loose grip on reality. Also the SS also is saying it never happened.

This makes her story even less believable. They interviewed the alleged source of the story, and it didn't come up?

ETA: It also seems obvious that with all of the witnesses they spoke to, someone would have mentioned this story before now.
I agree that Trump's behavior sounds like someone with "a loose grip on reality", but reports of similar erratic and violent behaviors have been reported about him in the past, so doesn't seem incredible.

CH relates what she heard, in an office where only Ornato and Engel were present.  The story Ornato told her occurred in the presidential limo ("the beast") where Ornato and Engel were with the president. 
Witnesses answer questions they are asked.  If the committee didn't ask about this particular episode, Ornato and Engel may not have felt the need to bring it up.  They are invited to return to the committee to rebut.

Here's Hutchinson's description of what occurred after Ornato ushered her into his office. 

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON:....When I went in, he shut the door, and I noticed Bobby Engel, who was the head of Mr. Trump's security detail, sitting in a chair, just looking somewhat discombobulated and a little lost.

I looked at Tony and he had said, did you f'ing hear what happened in the beast? I said, no, Tony, I I just got back. What happened? Tony proceeded to tell me that when the president got in the beast, he was under the impression from Mr. Meadows that the off the record movement to the Capitol was still possible and likely to happen, but that Bobby had more information.

So, once the president had gotten into the vehicle with Bobby, he thought that they were going up to the Capitol. And when Bobby had relayed to him we're not, we don't have the assets to do it, it's not secure, we're going back to the West Wing, the president had a very strong, a very angry response to that.

Tony described him as being irate. The president said something to the effect of I'm the f'ing president, take me up to the Capitol now, to which Bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the West Wing. The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel.

We're going back to the West Wing. We're not going to the Capitol. Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel. And Mr. when Mr. Ornato had recounted this story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles.

LIZ CHENEY: And was Mr. Engel in the room as Mr. Ornato told you this story?
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON: He was.
LIZ CHENEY: Did Mr. Engel correct or disagree with any part of this story from Mr. Ornato?
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON: Mr. Engel did not correct or disagree with any part of the story.
LIZ CHENEY: Did Mr. Engel or Mr. Ornato ever after that tell you that what Mr. Ornato had just said was untrue?
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON: Neither Mr. Ornato nor Mr. Engel told me ever that it was untrue.