Poll

One year in, what do you think actually happened that day?

A. False-flag operation by the "deep state" to take down Trump
2 (10%)
B. Maybe not a coordinated false-flag, but most of the agitators seem to be feds
3 (15%)
C. Preplanned insurrection by right-wing extremists
2 (10%)
D. Spontaneus riot motivated by Trump's call for violence
5 (25%)
E. Both C&D
6 (30%)
F. An attempt to overturn the fair and legal election of a US President
2 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Voting closed: January 13, 2022, 12:48:51 AM

Author Topic: 1/6 Fedsurrection?  (Read 32721 times)

Offline TimT

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 22008
  • Total likes: 7052
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile

Offline zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1494
  • Total likes: 1663
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: 412
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #261 on: June 30, 2022, 02:21:11 PM »
Since we decided that the credibility of a source should not influence whether we pay attention to their claims -

Quote
Jack Posobiec @JackPosobiec
BREAKING: Multiple sources including one who was at the WH on Jan 6 tell me Cipollone was not there in the am when Hutchinson testified she spoke with him. J6 Cmtes is aware of this discrepancy & are ignoring media inquiries about it. Seems she made up the entire conversation

Offline biobook

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2020
  • Posts: 1393
  • Total likes: 1691
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #262 on: June 30, 2022, 04:50:19 PM »
Since we decided that the credibility of a source should not influence whether we pay attention to their claims -
1. We should consider the credibility of the source.  Hearing CH's background and her 2-hr testimony left me feeling she was credible.  From a short clip you may get a different picture.
 
2. You're citing this guy: "Far-right commentator Jack Posobiec is a current host on One America News Network (OANN), an information network widely known to distort facts and which has been embraced by President Trump. This investigation has found that Posobiec — a Trump favorite — has collaborated with white supremacists, neo-fascists and antisemites for years, while producing propaganda that Trump and his inner circle have publicly celebrated." https://www.splcenter.org/splc-investigation-far-right-oann-anchor-jack-posobiecs-rise-tied-white-supremacist-movement
Not sure he's more credible than CH.

3. JP says that Cipollone was not in the WH in the morning.  CH did not say he was.  What she specifically said was "I saw Mr. Cipollone right before I walked out onto West Exec that morning, and Mr. Cipollone said something to the effect of please make sure we don't go up to the Capitol, Cassidy. Keep in touch with me. We're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen." 

"West Exec" apparently refers to both a street outside the WH and a parking lot there.  So maybe the claim that Cipollone wasn't in the WH is consistent with CH speaking to him just outside it, on her way to the rally. 

4. I'm willing to accept that CH might have forgotten when the conversation happened, or might have spoken to him on the phone, or somehow misremembered the specifics.  I'm even willing to accept that she's totally making up this particular 2 minute sentence from the 2 hour testimony.  But I don't see any reason to decide about that now, when we can wait for Cipollone to describe the event to the committee himself.

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4866
  • Total likes: 14577
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #263 on: June 30, 2022, 05:00:12 PM »


I think OP was saying that if CH should be trusted even if her credibility is in question, then he can post from JP even though he isn't credible

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17275
  • Total likes: 14071
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #264 on: June 30, 2022, 05:00:20 PM »

2. You're citing this guy: "Far-right commentator Jack Posobiec is a current host on One America News Network (OANN), an information network widely known to distort facts and which has been embraced by President Trump. This investigation has found that Posobiec — a Trump favorite — has collaborated with white supremacists, neo-fascists and antisemites for years, while producing propaganda that Trump and his inner circle have publicly celebrated." https://www.splcenter.org/splc-investigation-far-right-oann-anchor-jack-posobiecs-rise-tied-white-supremacist-movement



I know nothing about Prosobiec, but SPLC has about zero credibility.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline R.A.T.

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2020
  • Posts: 86
  • Total likes: 61
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #265 on: June 30, 2022, 05:58:44 PM »

Offline R.A.T.

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2020
  • Posts: 86
  • Total likes: 61
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #266 on: June 30, 2022, 06:03:10 PM »
I understand why many want to ignore the real bombshell of her testimony.

The president was told about individuals being armed. With this knowledge he then went on stage and instructed the armed mob to march on the capital and fight like hell.

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4866
  • Total likes: 14577
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #267 on: June 30, 2022, 06:22:46 PM »
I understand why many want to ignore the real bombshell of her testimony.

The president was told about individuals being armed. With this knowledge he then went on stage and instructed the armed mob to march on the capital and fight like hell.

I think @aygart's question is a good one. Mimah nafshach, if the concern people were armed was real, how did the SS let the president speak at the rally? And if it wasn't a real concern, that majorly tempers concerns about Trump's encouragement of violence.

Offline R.A.T.

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2020
  • Posts: 86
  • Total likes: 61
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #268 on: June 30, 2022, 06:29:26 PM »
I think @aygart's question is a good one. Mimah nafshach, if the concern people were armed was real, how did the SS let the president speak at the rally? And if it wasn't a real concern, that majorly tempers concerns about Trump's encouragement of violence.
It is a good question. All we have now is the testimony and not a real clear picture.

Offline zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1494
  • Total likes: 1663
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: 412
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #269 on: June 30, 2022, 06:31:43 PM »
I understand why many want to ignore the real bombshell of her testimony.

The president was told about individuals being armed. With this knowledge he then went on stage and instructed the armed mob to march on the capital and fight like hell.

Pretty much every aspect of her testimony that can be fact checked is falling apart. Why would we think that there is any truth to the parts that haven't yet been disproven yet?

Offline biobook

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2020
  • Posts: 1393
  • Total likes: 1691
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #270 on: June 30, 2022, 07:20:54 PM »
I think @aygart's question is a good one. Mimah nafshach, if the concern people were armed was real, how did the SS let the president speak at the rally? And if it wasn't a real concern, that majorly tempers concerns about Trump's encouragement of violence.
Trump spoke in the Ellipse, across the street from the White House lawn.  That area started filling up in the morning.

CHENEY:  When a President speaks, the Secret Service typically requires those attending to pass through metal detectors known as magnetometers, or mags for short. The Select Committee has learned that people who willingly entered the enclosed area for President Trump's speech were screened so they could attend the rally at the Ellipse.  They had weapons and other items that were confiscated: pepper spray, knives, brass knuckles, tasers, body armor, gas masks, batons, blunt weapons.

So Trump was sent that info, that these are the kinds of weapons that people brought to the rally.  But not everybody gave up their weapons. The report of the Glock and AR-15 were from morning police reports of people outside the Ellipse (one on Constitution Ave, one at 14th and Independence).  We can't tell from this if the police subsequently apprehended those people before the president spoke, or if the USSS considered them far enough away, but in any event, they weren't near the president. 

The USSS were concerned about the weapons on the streets of DC, and therefore didn't allow the president to walk to the Capitol as he wanted.

Trump knew that people had brought weapons, and that not all those weapons had been confiscated.  And he encouraged these people to go to the Capitol and "fight like hell".

Offline biobook

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2020
  • Posts: 1393
  • Total likes: 1691
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #271 on: June 30, 2022, 07:32:06 PM »
Pretty much every aspect of her testimony that can be fact checked is falling apart. Why would we think that there is any truth to the parts that haven't yet been disproven yet?
Are you forming an opinion based on twitter soundbites?  Did you listen to her testimony?

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17275
  • Total likes: 14071
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #272 on: June 30, 2022, 08:10:24 PM »
Trump spoke in the Ellipse, across the street from the White House lawn.  That area started filling up in the morning.

CHENEY:  When a President speaks, the Secret Service typically requires those attending to pass through metal detectors known as magnetometers, or mags for short. The Select Committee has learned that people who willingly entered the enclosed area for President Trump's speech were screened so they could attend the rally at the Ellipse.  They had weapons and other items that were confiscated: pepper spray, knives, brass knuckles, tasers, body armor, gas masks, batons, blunt weapons.

So Trump was sent that info, that these are the kinds of weapons that people brought to the rally.  But not everybody gave up their weapons. The report of the Glock and AR-15 were from morning police reports of people outside the Ellipse (one on Constitution Ave, one at 14th and Independence).  We can't tell from this if the police subsequently apprehended those people before the president spoke, or if the USSS considered them far enough away, but in any event, they weren't near the president. 

The USSS were concerned about the weapons on the streets of DC, and therefore didn't allow the president to walk to the Capitol as he wanted.

Trump knew that people had brought weapons, and that not all those weapons had been confiscated.  And he encouraged these people to go to the Capitol and "fight like hell".
I am trying to figure out how to reconcile the way they presented the guns as relevant to the riot at the capital yet irrelevant enough that the SS was fine with POTUS going there.
The re[ports of knives etc makes much more sense and is equally damning of Trump. The AR15  part just makes no sense to me.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline R.A.T.

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2020
  • Posts: 86
  • Total likes: 61
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #273 on: June 30, 2022, 08:59:33 PM »
The bombshell that hasn't been disputed is changing the minds of some of the president’s strongest supporters.

Mick Mulvaney, Trump's former Acting Chief of Staff, explicitly stated that he can no longer support Trump in the wake of Hutchinson's testimony.

"I've been defending the president against the charges of incitement to riot. I've seen the same speech he's given dozens of times. I've seen him accused of trying to foment violence with no violence coming as a result, so I've been defending him," Mulvaney told CBS Mornings on Wednesday.

"But after yesterday when she testified that he knew that there were guns on property and that he still encouraged people to go down to the Capitol, that certainly changes my mind."

Offline zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1494
  • Total likes: 1663
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: 412
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #274 on: June 30, 2022, 09:03:57 PM »

3. JP says that Cipollone was not in the WH in the morning.  CH did not say he was.  What she specifically said was "I saw Mr. Cipollone right before I walked out onto West Exec that morning, and Mr. Cipollone said something to the effect of please make sure we don't go up to the Capitol, Cassidy. Keep in touch with me. We're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen." 

"West Exec" apparently refers to both a street outside the WH and a parking lot there.  So maybe the claim that Cipollone wasn't in the WH is consistent with CH speaking to him just outside it, on her way to the rally. 

4. I'm willing to accept that CH might have forgotten when the conversation happened, or might have spoken to him on the phone, or somehow misremembered the specifics.  I'm even willing to accept that she's totally making up this particular 2 minute sentence from the 2 hour testimony.  But I don't see any reason to decide about that now, when we can wait for Cipollone to describe the event to the committee himself.

I think we need @cm's pretzel .gif

Offline R.A.T.

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2020
  • Posts: 86
  • Total likes: 61
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #275 on: July 01, 2022, 03:19:33 PM »
Pretty much every aspect of her testimony that can be fact checked is falling apart. Why would we think that there is any truth to the parts that haven't yet been disproven yet?
At this point there has been no evidence presented showing anything she said as being false. What has been shown is this is not the first time Tony Ornato has disputed sworn testimony. You going to give more credence to someone via twitter or sworn testimony.

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7453
  • Total likes: 3923
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #276 on: July 01, 2022, 07:03:59 PM »
I think we need @cm's pretzel .gif
Why not just use R.A.T.s?
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 14955
  • Total likes: 2415
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 01:03:04 AM by PlatinumGuy »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 14955
  • Total likes: 2415
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #278 on: July 04, 2022, 01:06:00 AM »
I think @aygart's question is a good one. Mimah nafshach, if the concern people were armed was real, how did the SS let the president speak at the rally? And if it wasn't a real concern, that majorly tempers concerns about Trump's encouragement of violence.
It seems very clear the discussion of weapons was of people outside the perimeter at the rally, whom the SS was denying entry by mag detectors and Trump wanted to be allowed in.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4866
  • Total likes: 14577
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: 1/6 Fedsurrection?
« Reply #279 on: July 04, 2022, 08:21:40 PM »
It seems very clear the discussion of weapons was of people outside the perimeter at the rally, whom the SS was denying entry by mag detectors and Trump wanted to be allowed in.

Right, because if I'm the secret service and I know there are multiple armed people outside the perimeter, I'm totes gonna be chill that the mags are sufficient to eliminate the risk of armed people in the perimeter.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not likely.