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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* If you have to ask, It's most likely not ethical.
« Last edited by UKinNYS on April 13, 2021, 11:51:23 AM »

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 556414 times)

Offline good sam

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1280 on: March 26, 2014, 05:26:48 PM »
Please change the name of this thread to “How intelligent people can really sound stupid”.
-1 Thought he sounded intelligent.

Here's the scenario: he scans everything, I didn't notice him scanning the big item in my cart, so I say "did you get this also?" he says, "yup, you're all set."  On my way out, to make sure, I check the receipt, and find that he didn't scan it. 

This wouldn't take care of your first issue of him not being the owner, but I'd think it would fall within the definition of "taos."
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1281 on: March 26, 2014, 05:30:29 PM »
Find it interesting this hasn't been discussed in the thread yet... Churning. Do you think it's ethical?
(Leaving out AMEX who at least until recently has knowingly allowed churning after 12 months).

Offline AJK

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1282 on: March 26, 2014, 05:37:50 PM »
How is it unethical if you follow the terms and conditions?
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline good sam

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1283 on: March 26, 2014, 05:40:02 PM »
How is it unethical if you follow the terms and conditions?
Good for you. But there is halachathe T&Cs, and there is doing the "right" thing. Not always do they go hand in hand.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline AJK

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1284 on: March 26, 2014, 05:45:19 PM »
Disagree those are the same.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline dans fan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1285 on: March 26, 2014, 06:47:03 PM »
Here's the scenario: he scans everything, I didn't notice him scanning the big item in my cart, so I say "did you get this also?" he says, "yup, you're all set."  On my way out, to make sure, I check the receipt, and find that he didn't scan it. 

This wouldn't take care of your first issue of him not being the owner, but I'd think it would fall within the definition of "taos."
thats true in your case since he thought he charged you for it, it would be a toas , but point number two is olso a issue being that there is a itemized bill, its as if the bill says you are paying x amount of money for item xyz. anything not on there is not part of the mechira and is not taos akum. its true he made a mistake but a mistake doesnt make it toas akum. it can be compared to taking a item skipping the  cash regester and heading towards the door, you show your reciept from another purchase to the security at the door , he makes a mistake thinks you paid for it and lets you go,true there is a mistake but its not toas akum. taos akum is a type of a transaction, not a mistake

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1286 on: March 26, 2014, 06:56:05 PM »
How is it unethical if you follow the terms and conditions?
Was that in response to me? If it was, aren't the T&C clear that enrollment bonuses can only be earned for first time cardholders?
I'm betting you weren't talking to me so I'm just gonna go ahead and #awkward it.

Offline AJK

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1287 on: March 26, 2014, 07:14:25 PM »
Was that in response to me? If it was, aren't the T&C clear that enrollment bonuses can only be earned for first time cardholders?
I'm betting you weren't talking to me so I'm just gonna go ahead and #awkward it.

No, I was.

But AFAIK, most T&Cs mention nothing of first timers, CMIIW.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1288 on: March 26, 2014, 07:27:47 PM »
No, I was.

But AFAIK, most T&Cs mention nothing of first timers, CMIIW.

Oh, hehe. Well, yeah pretty sure most of them do mention it. Just pulled up UMPE for example:

Offline AJK

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1289 on: March 26, 2014, 07:35:03 PM »
Seems you're right... let the debate begin!
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1290 on: March 26, 2014, 07:46:52 PM »
Seems you're right... let the debate begin!
Sweet!
Here's T&C from Citi Exec 100,000 which we all know no one around here is churning.

Offline george

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1291 on: March 26, 2014, 07:50:50 PM »
An important point is that when you churn, you are not actually violating the T&C's. If anything, the bank is!
Let me explain: all you do is sign up for a card that you once had. Is that against the T&C's? No. It doesn't say the CARD is only for first timers; it says the BONUS is for first timers. So when the bank decides to bestow upon you a bonus that you were not promised, that is their prerogative.
Now, the newest Amex terms might actually say that the card itself is only for first timers - I don't remember right now, maybe someone can chime in. But certainly the other banks are as I said.

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1292 on: March 26, 2014, 07:56:46 PM »
An important point is that when you churn, you are not actually violating the T&C's. If anything, the bank is!
Let me explain: all you do is sign up for a card that you once had. Is that against the T&C's? No. It doesn't say the CARD is only for first timers; it says the BONUS is for first timers. So when the bank decides to bestow upon you a bonus that you were not promised, that is their prerogative.
Now, the newest Amex terms might actually say that the card itself is only for first timers - I don't remember right now, maybe someone can chime in. But certainly the other banks are as I said.
That's interesting. I mean I always knew that the banks can (and sometimes have) decide(d) to not give you the bonus on a churn (i.e. a failed churn). So if a churn works, then the fact that they gave you the points is, like you said, their prerogative - no one forced them.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1293 on: March 26, 2014, 08:33:22 PM »
That's interesting. I mean I always knew that the banks can (and sometimes have) decide(d) to not give you the bonus on a churn (i.e. a failed churn). So if a churn works, then the fact that they gave you the points is, like you said, their prerogative - no one forced them.
I believe that's what the question is, is it ethical to fool a bank into giving you a bonus you aren't entitled to...

Offline george

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1294 on: March 26, 2014, 08:47:24 PM »
I believe that's what the question is, is it ethical to fool a bank into giving you a bonus you aren't entitled to...
Indeed, that is the question. I was just pointing out that churning generally does not involve directly violating the T&C's. (As opposed to, for example, selling an airline voucher.)

Offline rots5

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1295 on: March 27, 2014, 05:19:04 AM »
I just asked a shaila. 100% to as if checkout guy didn't scan. But u have to make it that he was able to have scanned it. Obviously if u hide it under the shirt that's called matte alum and its assure.
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Offline Myccrabbi

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1296 on: March 27, 2014, 07:29:46 PM »
I passed by one of these signs that advertise signing u up for credit card, and thought of ripping it down. Whata u guys think?
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Offline mr. perfect

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1297 on: March 27, 2014, 08:41:00 PM »
I passed by one of these signs that advertise signing u up for credit card, and thought of ripping it down. Whata u guys think?
maskim
be smart and don't mess things up please

Offline ayman

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1298 on: March 27, 2014, 10:34:27 PM »
I passed by one of these signs that advertise signing u up for credit card, and thought of ripping it down. Whata u guys think?
Like this? Saw it in yeshiva and had to laugh.

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Offline etech0

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1299 on: March 27, 2014, 10:50:44 PM »
If I make purchases for work with work's credit card, is it ethical to go through a portal to earn myself some cashback?
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