Is It Ethical?

[bigbadmoish]

OK on your scale of 1-10 where would you rate it?

i asked a rav and he said its not so pashut that you can halachlicly. im not sure what the heter is to do something mefurash against the t&c, churning is different because they "may close you down" thats up to them.

if i got a real heter then i would evaluate the ethics side

[dealfinder85]

i asked a rav and he said its not so pashut that you can halachlicly. im not sure what the heter is to do something mefurash against the t&c, churning is different because they "may close you down" thats up to them.

if i got a real heter then i would evaluate the ethics side

is it wrong to book a flight for someone and sell him the flight?

[bigbadmoish]

why cant you sell points? whats the reason behind it?

they have a right to restrict the usage of their rewards as they see fit... this is contrast to my shita of PGGM where i doubt is says mefurash that its not allowed... then me exploiting a loophole is a matter of ethics

[dealfinder85]

they have a right to restrict the usage of their rewards as they see fit... this is contrast to my shita of PGGM where i doubt is says mefurash that its not allowed... then me exploiting a loophole is a matter of ethics

you seriously think its more wrong to sell points than pull the PGGM?

[bigbadmoish]

is it wrong to book a flight for someone and sell him the flight?

thats just saying selling points in more words IMHO

[dealfinder85]

thats just saying selling points in more words IMHO

but u didnt sell the points
you sold him the booked flight

[bigbadmoish]

you seriously think its more wrong to sell points than pull the PGGM?

yes. when they expressly tell you not to do something how can you do it? if i gave a present with tnai and you dont keep that tnai, dont you owe me that present back?

[dealfinder85]

yes.

not sure how you can argue that
go ask amex if they would rather you PGGM or sell points (refer to it as the "PGGM")

[bigbadmoish]

not sure how you can argue that
go ask amex if they would rather you PGGM or sell points (refer to it as the "PGGM")

im not sure if the halacha is affected by what they'd rather... dvarim shbileiv and all... you are violating t&c by selling not so with PGGM

[dealfinder85]

im not sure if the halacha is affected by what they'd rather... dvarim shbileiv and all... you are violating t&c by selling not so with PGGM

i thought the point of this thread is ethics, not halacha
and certain things you dont need to list in t&c to be forbidden "being refunded for not spending is forbidden"

[bigbadmoish]

but u didnt sell the points
you sold him the booked flight

Quoted directly from Chase UR website: Points aren't your property and have no cash value. You can't transfer or move points unless expressly provided for in this agreement. Additionally, points can't be transferred by operation of law, such as by inheritance, in bankruptcy or in connection with a divorce.
In another section:
You can move your points, but only to another Chase card with Ultimate Rewards belonging to you, your spouse or domestic partner, or your joint business owner(s), as applicable.

[dealfinder85]

Quoted directly from Chase UR website: Points aren't your property and have no cash value. You can't transfer or move points unless expressly provided for in this agreement. Additionally, points can't be transferred by operation of law, such as by inheritance, in bankruptcy or in connection with a divorce.
In another section:
You can move your points, but only to another Chase card with Ultimate Rewards belonging to you, your spouse or domestic partner, or your joint business owner(s), as applicable.

doesnt say i can book a flight for a friend and ask him for money in return
transfer points to my avios account and book the flight

[bigbadmoish]

i thought the point of this thread is ethics, not halacha
and certain things you dont need to list in t&c to be forbidden "being refunded for not spending is forbidden"

they pay whether you fly or not... shouldnt make a difference to them. if they wrote that in t&c then i wouldnt say that.

[dealfinder85]

As i copied from previous post,
*remember this is a business card so you need to 'be  ' a sole proprietor who uses your ss # as business id.

Usually the sign up bonus for the  American Express Business Platinum Card is only 40,000 membership rewards points. Some people have managed to get 100,000 points, here’s how they were able to do so:
Call 1-800-971-6736
Choose option 1, “apply for a new card”
You’ll be redirected to a customer service representative.
You: “Hello, I’d like to apply for the American Express platinum business card. A few months ago I received an offer but it has since expired, I’m wondering if it’s possible to still get this bonus” Them: “Do you remember what your RSVP code is?” You: “No, but I do remember the offer was for 100,000 membership rewards” Them: “Ok, I’m able to extend this offer to you as a one time courtesy. You will earn 100,000 membership rewards points when you spend $10,000 within three months”

i happen to think anything involving straight up lying is absolutely unethical and gets a 10

[bigbadmoish]

doesnt say i can book a flight for a friend and ask him for money in return
transfer points to my avios account and book the flight

from BA's site:

22.1. Except as otherwise provided by British Airways and communicated to the Member, Avios points are not transferable (whether from person to person, account to account, statement to statement, card to card or otherwise) other than in accordance with the Conditions of Use relating to Transfer Avios and cannot be bequeathed, devised or otherwise transferred by operation of law.

22.2. Any purported purchase, sale, transfer, unauthorised use (including bartering), procurement or redemption of Avios Points issued or awarded to another person or any other use of Avios Points contrary to these Terms and Conditions will constitute a fundamental breach by the Member of these Terms and Conditions and the Conditions of Use relating to Purchase Avios and Transfer Avios and therefore the contract between British Airways and the Member.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

My friend's wife went to a doctor's office, and the parking lot was full. Someone had parked a car right in the middle of two spaces, making it impossible for someone to park on either side of their parked car. My friend's wife tried to park in the narrow space next to this car anyway, and scratched the parked car slightly. Should she leave a note with her phone number, or did the person "bring it on himself" for being selfish in the way he parked, making it unnecessary to leave a note?

[Sport]

My friend's wife went to a doctor's office, and the parking lot was full. Someone had parked a car right in the middle of two spaces, making it impossible for someone to park on either side of their parked car. My friend's wife tried to park in the narrow space next to this car anyway, and scratched the parked car slightly. Should she leave a note with her phone number, or did the person "bring it on himself" for being selfish in the way he parked, making it unnecessary to leave a note?

The guys a jerk (not that I'm not guilty of doing that one or twice), but that doesn't give free reign to anyone to cause him damage. 
I always wondered about this with people who double park leaving just enough room to squeeze by, what would happen if I knocked the guys mirror off. Whose responsibility is it?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Whose responsibility is it?

Yours.

[beeweegee]

My friend's wife went to a doctor's office, and the parking lot was full. Someone had parked a car right in the middle of two spaces, making it impossible for someone to park on either side of their parked car. My friend's wife tried to park in the narrow space next to this car anyway, and scratched the parked car slightly. Should she leave a note with her phone number, or did the person "bring it on himself" for being selfish in the way he parked, making it unnecessary to leave a note?

IMHO, if it would have been someone, say, blocking her driveway, and she tried avoiding them but couldn't,  i would say he "brought it upon himself". Here, though,  i would say that although the person was selfish,  no one made her park there and she chose to do so. (Even though the lot was full, she had no specific right to that spot).

[ChaimMoskowitz]

IMHO, if it would have been someone, say, blocking her driveway, and she tried avoiding them but couldn't,  i would say he "brought it upon himself".

Should she still leave a note so the person will know who did the damage?