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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* If you have to ask, It's most likely not ethical.
« Last edited by UKinNYS on April 13, 2021, 11:51:23 AM »

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 562255 times)

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1940 on: April 16, 2015, 12:28:04 PM »
It's obvious that per the T&C's you can't resell. Invited guests mean you can bring your wife, kids and friends along with you.

In terms of what they can limit, they are a private company offering you a service and can limit whatever they want (as long as they are not discriminating).
There is a spectrum of 'speculative.' I assume they are trying to exclude you from making a booking you don't plan on using at all. The rest of the spectrum is hard to quantify.
I hear the points you made. My next Q is why do they "allow" selling? Why don't hotels make the reservation holder check in? Why do they allow this 'second guest' shtick?

Offline mb1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1941 on: April 16, 2015, 12:35:08 PM »
I hear the points you made. My next Q is why do they "allow" selling? Why don't hotels make the reservation holder check in? Why do they allow this 'second guest' shtick?
My guess is that they try to make the terms as "fair and reasonable" as possible in order to have an enforceable contract.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1942 on: April 16, 2015, 12:49:43 PM »
They "allow" you to sell as not to inconvenience legitimate guests. Let's say you have a reservation under your name but your wife actually will arrive at the hotel first. How annoying would it be for you to have to go with her to check in
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1943 on: April 16, 2015, 01:04:00 PM »
They "allow" you to sell as not to inconvenience legitimate guests. Let's say you have a reservation under your name but your wife actually will arrive at the hotel first. How annoying would it be for you to have to go with her to check in
Then they should make a note to check that at some point you showed up at the hotel also.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1944 on: April 16, 2015, 01:29:17 PM »
And how would they check? Knock on your door?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1945 on: April 16, 2015, 02:24:09 PM »
And how would they check? Knock on your door?
Perhaps tell the person checking in originally, that the main ressy holder will have to stop by the desk when they arrive, or at checkout, or sometime before checkout, etc. If that doesn't happen, you will be subject to X fees.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1946 on: April 16, 2015, 02:38:14 PM »
Perhaps tell the person checking in originally, that the main ressy holder will have to stop by the desk when they arrive, or at checkout, or sometime before checkout, etc. If that doesn't happen, you will be subject to X fees.
They "allow" you to sell as not to inconvenience legitimate guests.
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Hirshthg

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1947 on: April 21, 2015, 01:38:19 PM »
First of all, in a contract one is allowed to put in whatever they want, as long as the action isn't restricted by some law. Secondly, I would find reserving a room you don't actually plan to stay in as improper to the degree that one could reasonable object to it.

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1948 on: April 23, 2015, 11:41:57 AM »
Here's a fun one:

Clicking, "I have read and accept the Terms & Conditions."

Offline CS91

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1949 on: April 23, 2015, 11:42:57 AM »
Here's a fun one:

Clicking, "I have read and accept the Terms & Conditions."

Whole discussion in contract law if those are always enforceable because sometimes the companies cannot reasonably expect people to read them...

Offline Achas Veachas

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Offline yitrap

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1951 on: April 23, 2015, 11:45:25 AM »

Here's a fun one:

Clicking, "I have read and accept the Terms & Conditions."

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1952 on: April 23, 2015, 02:11:09 PM »
But it's still a lie to click and in effect "say" that you read to the T&C.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1953 on: April 23, 2015, 02:12:47 PM »
But it's still a lie to click and in effect "say" that you read to the T&C.
Not if you [mentally] add quotation marks and say you read "the terms and conditions"... ;)

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1954 on: April 23, 2015, 02:15:33 PM »
Not if you [mentally] add quotation marks and say you read "the terms and conditions"... ;)
alol

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1955 on: April 28, 2015, 10:39:10 AM »
A person booked an award reservation at a hotel that is not yet open (but was open for bookings) and then cancelled it shortly thereafter. The hotel calls and says there will be a delay in the hotel's opening, and they offer points compensation for having to cancel the stay. For whatever reason, the system doesn't see that the reservation was already cancelled. Is it ethical... to take the compensation points?

Man these situations play games with my mind.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1956 on: April 28, 2015, 10:49:04 AM »
A person booked an award reservation at a hotel that is not yet open (but was open for bookings) and then cancelled it shortly thereafter. The hotel calls and says there will be a delay in the hotel's opening, and they offer points compensation for having to cancel the stay. For whatever reason, the system doesn't see that the reservation was already cancelled. Is it ethical... to take the compensation points?

Man these situations play games with my mind.
That's a tough one but I will say unethical. How about this one that did happen. Booked a hotel hoping it would not open on time so you get compensated. If it did open on time you just cancel.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1957 on: April 28, 2015, 10:58:15 AM »
That's a tough one but I will say unethical. How about this one that did happen. Booked a hotel hoping it would not open on time so you get compensated. If it did open on time you just cancel.
Well, what happened? Did it open on time or not?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1958 on: April 28, 2015, 11:06:36 AM »
Well, what happened? Did it open on time or not?
Nope and received three nights to use later. It wasn't me.  >:(
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1959 on: April 28, 2015, 11:12:04 AM »
Nope and received three nights to use later. It wasn't me.  >:(
Why is your scenario different than my scenario? I mean yes, technically, one person had intention to earn compensation and the other didn't but is getting compensation for something he doesn't deserve, but the concept is generally the same.

(PS In the situation I proposed, they also offered that if the guest chooses to reschedule the trip, they will pay for up to $300 in airfare changes. He did not yet book airfare, but could possibly try to get another $300 out of them depending on how much proof they ask for in regards to airfare receipts.)