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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* It's most likely not ethical.

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 321956 times)

Online joe1234

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2505 on: July 28, 2020, 09:54:41 PM »
Is it ethical to disregard a voluntary travel quarantine? Travel is important but quarantine impractical.
Don’t disregard, just don’t volunteer...

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2506 on: July 28, 2020, 09:58:58 PM »
Is it ethical to disregard a voluntary travel quarantine? Travel is important but quarantine impractical.
If your question is because your wife feels uncomfortable with it, IMHO it's not worth it. Better go somewhere that's not in the quarantine ban. Like MA or PA.
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Offline Sam Finkelstein

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2507 on: July 28, 2020, 10:03:03 PM »
It’s a specific destination so can’t really be helped.
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2508 on: July 28, 2020, 10:06:28 PM »
Very possibly against Halacha - על המזיק להרחיק את עצמו and breaking a democratic governments quarantine regulation would probably not be considered מהלך כדרכו.

If you have antibodies I think it's OK so long as you avoid crowded indoors spaces like shuls

I served 2 full 14 day quarantine periods.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Sam Finkelstein

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2509 on: July 28, 2020, 10:23:04 PM »
Very possibly against Halacha - על המזיק להרחיק את עצמו and breaking a democratic governments quarantine regulation would probably not be considered מהלך כדרכו.

If you have antibodies I think it's OK so long as you avoid crowded indoors spaces like shuls

I served 2 full 14 day quarantine periods.

Thanks but I wasn’t asking for halachik advice here. That’s my LOR’s job.

The quarantine is voluntary but compliance is expected. I happen to have antibodies but my wife does not. Ridiculous we can’t be cleared with a test but I get they’re not 100% accurate.
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2510 on: July 31, 2020, 12:25:59 AM »
Thanks but I wasn’t asking for halachik advice here. That’s my LOR’s job.

The quarantine is voluntary but compliance is expected. I happen to have antibodies but my wife does not. Ridiculous we can’t be cleared with a test but I get they’re not 100% accurate.
I don't think it would be unethical if it's voluntary.
Test is meaningless, if you were infected yesterday, you would test negative today but positive a few days later
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Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2511 on: December 08, 2020, 08:35:14 AM »
Is it ethical to use coupons intended for somebody else, or to manipulate coupons so as to provide a different benefit than intended? Does the value of the coupon matter?

Examples:
Store ABC sends a 10% off coupon to its credit card mailing list and the terms of the coupon state that it’s only intended for use by the recipients, yet the coupon works for everyone. Can it be used by non-credit card holders?
Store ABC has an 80% off coupon for employees only. Can non-employees use it?
Store ABC send out a “Save10” coupon open to everyone, but you figure out that “Save25” also works with greater savings. Is that permitted?
Store ABC send a one time use coupon for a discount, and you discover a way to manipulate the code so that it works multiple times. Is that allowed?

For the purposes of these questions, assume that the store wants the coupons to be used only as intended. Don’t say that the store is just happy to be making a sale, for that it’s part of a marketing plan.

If your answers differ depending on the situation, please explain why.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2512 on: December 08, 2020, 08:55:20 AM »
Store ABC sends a 10% off coupon to its credit card mailing list and the terms of the coupon state that it’s only intended for use by the recipients, yet the coupon works for everyone. Can it be used by non-credit card holders? No
Store ABC has an 80% off coupon for employees only. Can non-employees use it? No
Store ABC send out a “Save10” coupon open to everyone, but you figure out that “Save25” also works with greater savings. Is that permitted? Yes
Store ABC send a one time use coupon for a discount, and you discover a way to manipulate the code so that it works multiple times. Is that allowed? No
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2513 on: December 08, 2020, 09:20:29 AM »
Store ABC sends a 10% off coupon to its credit card mailing list and the terms of the coupon state that it’s only intended for use by the recipients, yet the coupon works for everyone. Can it be used by non-credit card holders? No
Store ABC has an 80% off coupon for employees only. Can non-employees use it? No
Store ABC send out a “Save10” coupon open to everyone, but you figure out that “Save25” also works with greater savings. Is that permitted? Yes
Store ABC send a one time use coupon for a discount, and you discover a way to manipulate the code so that it works multiple times. Is that allowed? No

Why is number 3 permitted if the others aren’t?

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2514 on: December 08, 2020, 09:36:06 AM »
Is it ethical to use coupons intended for somebody else, or to manipulate coupons so as to provide a different benefit than intended? Does the value of the coupon matter?

Examples:
Store ABC sends a 10% off coupon to its credit card mailing list and the terms of the coupon state that it’s only intended for use by the recipients, yet the coupon works for everyone. Can it be used by non-credit card holders?
Store ABC has an 80% off coupon for employees only. Can non-employees use it?
Store ABC send out a “Save10” coupon open to everyone, but you figure out that “Save25” also works with greater savings. Is that permitted?
Store ABC send a one time use coupon for a discount, and you discover a way to manipulate the code so that it works multiple times. Is that allowed?

For the purposes of these questions, assume that the store wants the coupons to be used only as intended. Don’t say that the store is just happy to be making a sale, for that it’s part of a marketing plan.

If your answers differ depending on the situation, please explain why.

A) If the coupon is unique to each CC holder, I don't think it matters who uses it (essentially the CC holder's benefit to use or convey). If it's generic, but intended for CC holders only, it shouldn't be used by non-CC holders.

B) No. If an employee uses it for you, that depends on the employee's relationship and understanding with the employer.

C) Yes. There doesn't seem to be any restriction implied on either code.

D) No.

Value of the coupon doesn't matter. Manipulating the coupon is straight up theft. It's like changing the price tag on an item in the store.
When you find yourself agreeing with me more often than not, it's time for a cheshbon hanefesh.

Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2515 on: December 08, 2020, 09:41:36 AM »
A) If the coupon is unique to each CC holder, I don't think it matters who uses it (essentially the CC holder's benefit to use or convey). If it's generic, but intended for CC holders only, it shouldn't be used by non-CC holders.

B) No. If an employee uses it for you, that depends on the employee's relationship and understanding with the employer.

C) Yes. There doesn't seem to be any restriction implied on either code.

D) No.

Value of the coupon doesn't matter. Manipulating the coupon is straight up theft. It's like changing the price tag on an item in the store.

Why isn't (C) considered manipulating the coupon? What if I change it to "Save90" and it takes off 90% of the price. Is that also permitted?

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2516 on: December 08, 2020, 09:42:37 AM »
Why isn't (C) considered manipulating the coupon? What if I change it to "Save90" and it takes off 90% of the price. Is that also permitted?

I don't believe it's manipulating the original coupon. It's a different coupon altogether.
When you find yourself agreeing with me more often than not, it's time for a cheshbon hanefesh.

Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2517 on: December 08, 2020, 09:49:33 AM »
I don't believe it's manipulating the original coupon. It's a different coupon altogether.

Then wouldn’t it fall under Category (A) of using a coupon not intended for you?

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2518 on: December 08, 2020, 09:52:44 AM »
Then wouldn’t it fall under Category (A) of using a coupon not intended for you?
C) Yes. There doesn't seem to be any restriction implied on either code.
When you find yourself agreeing with me more often than not, it's time for a cheshbon hanefesh.

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2519 on: December 08, 2020, 09:59:41 AM »
Alternative take: if the store wishes to restrict certain discounts to specific people or groups, it's the store's responsibility to verify the intended users are using it before giving the customer the product. Not verifying authentic use can be seen as sanctioning the transaction.
When you find yourself agreeing with me more often than not, it's time for a cheshbon hanefesh.