Is It Ethical?

[Agoldsc1]

How do you know what the restrictions are for the manipulated code if you've created it yourself? Maybe Save10 is open to the public and Save90 is for employees only?

[Agoldsc1]

Alternative take: if the store wishes to restrict certain discounts to specific people or groups, it's the store's responsibility to verify the intended users are using it before giving the customer the product. Not verifying authentic use can be seen as sanctioning the transaction.

Would this also apply to a manipulated coupon code? Should the store verify that the code is legitimate, and if not, it sanctions its usage?

[Lurker]

How do you know what the restrictions are for the manipulated code if you've created it yourself? Maybe Save10 is open to the public and Save90 is for employees only?

The cynic in me says if a store's employee discount code is SAVE90, they deserve what they get. Don't leave your store untended.

[ckmk47]

A store has an obligation to safeguard the coupons they honor.

For a coupon meant only for cc holders, they can make it work only when paying with their cc.
For employee discounts, they can require an employee number during checkout.


They can program their system better to not allow repeat use.

[Lurker]

Would this also apply to a manipulated coupon code? Should the store verify that the code is legitimate, and if not, it sanctions its usage?

If a code is for specific usage or users, then yes. Unless we're talking about straight up hacking a system, which is like breaking into a store.

[Agoldsc1]

If a code is for specific usage or users, then yes. Unless we're talking about straight up hacking a system, which is like breaking into a store.

Let's say I get an e-mail coupon ABCD1234 which gives me $10 off any purchase, but then I discover that coupon code ABCD5678 also gives me $10 off. Permitted? Is that hacking?

[Lurker]

Let's say I get an e-mail coupon ABCD1234 which gives me $10 off any purchase, but then I discover that coupon code ABCD5678 also gives me $10 off. Permitted? Is that hacking?

Hacking is picking the lock, not trying the handle and finding it open.

[aygart]

Hacking is picking the lock, not trying the handle and finding it open.

If you go to a store at 3am and find the handle unlocked what can you take?

[Lurker]

If you go to a store at 3am and find the handle unlocked what can you take?

What difference does it make if it's 3 am or 3 pm? If the store is open, buy what you want 

It wasn't a great analogy. The point is, discovering something is on sale is not the same as breaking in. Is the sale for you? Don't know. If there's no sign that says it isn't and they don't stop you from buying, why should you assume it isn't?

[Yonah]

Is it ethical to use coupons intended for somebody else, or to manipulate coupons so as to provide a different benefit than intended? Does the value of the coupon matter?

Examples:
Store ABC sends a 10% off coupon to its credit card mailing list and the terms of the coupon state that it’s only intended for use by the recipients, yet the coupon works for everyone. Can it be used by non-credit card holders?
Store ABC has an 80% off coupon for employees only. Can non-employees use it?
Store ABC send out a “Save10” coupon open to everyone, but you figure out that “Save25” also works with greater savings. Is that permitted?
Store ABC send a one time use coupon for a discount, and you discover a way to manipulate the code so that it works multiple times. Is that allowed?

For the purposes of these questions, assume that the store wants the coupons to be used only as intended. Don’t say that the store is just happy to be making a sale, for that it’s part of a marketing plan.

If your answers differ depending on the situation, please explain why.

I think there are two issues here:

Issue 1: a)if you know that that he code isn't meant for you or b) you manipulated the code to exact a different discount - probably not ethical

Issue 2: you use a plug in that runs through codes - like Honey - or you get it from a third party - this, IMHO, is less unethical - because you have no real way of knowing if it was publicly intended or not.

[lcm]

Funny, since I was buying a Groupon recently. There was a banner on the website of save10 for 10% off, or something like that, so I tried it.
I got a message that that coupon doesn't work, but there is 20% off coupon available for my transaction, and to click to apply

[Yo ssi]

Coupon codes are far beyond it's infancy. Any store creating a generic coupon made specifically for employers (and especially CC holders), is fully aware that the code will be shared and used by it's "improper" audience, as a buyer I'd assume they are fine with it.

In other words, saying the buyer made a code SAVE20 and intended it to be only used by CC holders, IMHO isn't a valid statement.

[shmuelb]

But do you agree that if you do know pretty much that this code is meant for someone else and not you, does the fact that they did not safeguard their system better make it ok for you to use it?

I think the analogy is good - if a store left their door open by mistake, does it mean you can steal from them? And if they are "ok" with it, meaning they know there will be some people who steal with the system (for example, using items and then returning it claiming they are unused), does that make it ok?

In other words, when someone else does something wrong, does it make it ok for us to do something wrong?

[shmuelb]

A separate question, is it ok to ask a vendor for a discount based on Covid, if you personally have not lost income due to Covid?

Does it make it ethical if other people are doing it?

[Yo ssi]

But do you agree that if you do know pretty much that this code is meant for someone else and not you, does the fact that they did not safeguard their system better make it ok for you to use it?

I think the analogy is good - if a store left their door open by mistake, does it mean you can steal from them? And if they are "ok" with it, meaning they know there will be some people who steal with the system (for example, using items and then returning it claiming they are unused), does that make it ok?

In other words, when someone else does something wrong, does it make it ok for us to do something wrong?

I don't believe that's a correct analogy, since majority of times the coupon codes and discounts benefit the seller, them choosing a generic code to send out to all their card members not only helps the card members feel more exclusive, but additionally those who get their hands on the code will think it's a better deal then if they got the code themselves. It's a much more effective marketing strategy IMO.

[motec bb]

Say you buy something online for $50, use it, but then see the identical item later somewhere else for $25, can you buy the $25 item and return it to the place you bought the $50 item?
Ethical?

( the $25 item is identical and brand new)

Does מיגו apply?

[Definitions]

Say you buy something online for $50, use it, but then see the identical item later somewhere else for $25, can you buy the $25 item and return it to the place you bought the $50 item?
Ethical?

( the $25 item is identical and brand new)

Does מיגו apply?

Halachically I don't know. The kinyan is most probably on the exact item.

Ethically - I'd be comfortable doing that

[Der Deutsche Jude]

Say you buy something online for $50, use it, but then see the identical item later somewhere else for $25, can you buy the $25 item and return it to the place you bought the $50 item?
Ethical?

( the $25 item is identical and brand new)

Does מיגו apply?

Not comfortable with that ethically, because the only way to have used it for those few days was to have bought it from the $50 place. But if the $25 place had the sale all along - I’d have to think about it.

[R.A.T.]

Say you buy something online for $50, use it, but then see the identical item later somewhere else for $25, can you buy the $25 item and return it to the place you bought the $50 item?
Ethical?

Buying something at one place and returning it to another place is not only unethical but illegal.

[S209]

Buying something at one place and returning it to another place is not only unethical but illegal.

Welcome back.