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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* It's most likely not ethical.

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 320898 times)

Offline yelped

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2565 on: January 10, 2021, 07:02:25 PM »
No.  This would be like writing a single term paper and turning it in to fulfill the requirements for two different courses, which many would consider academic misconduct, unless it's something specifically agreed to in advance.
Why? Do you have to reinvent the wheel? If you wrote it, you're not plagiarizing it from yourself.

Offline biobook

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2566 on: January 10, 2021, 08:21:27 PM »
Why? Do you have to reinvent the wheel? If you wrote it, you're not plagiarizing it from yourself.
I know it sounds weird, but there actually is a concept of "self-plagiarism" and it's generally considered inappropriate.  Maybe not universally considered wrong, but certainly within the context of getting credit for a course it would not be accepted.  Here's one example where students are explicitly told not to do it:
https://guides.lib.unc.edu/plagiarism/self-plagiarism

You ask "Do you have to reinvent the wheel?"  Would you hand in a paper that someone else has already written?


Offline yelped

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2567 on: January 10, 2021, 11:08:28 PM »
I know it sounds weird, but there actually is a concept of "self-plagiarism" and it's generally considered inappropriate.  Maybe not universally considered wrong, but certainly within the context of getting credit for a course it would not be accepted.  Here's one example where students are explicitly told not to do it:
https://guides.lib.unc.edu/plagiarism/self-plagiarism

You ask "Do you have to reinvent the wheel?"  Would you hand in a paper that someone else has already written?
Don't know. Never had an issue reusing my work at the college I went to.

Offline biobook

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2568 on: January 11, 2021, 12:50:03 AM »
Don't know. Never had an issue reusing my work at the college I went to.
Colleges vary.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2569 on: January 11, 2021, 07:22:25 AM »
...to complete a transaction off-line for a contact made via AirBnB?
Safe to say the second time it isn't unethical - correct (meaning if they first came via AirBnb, next time for sure you can transact directly, right?)?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline S209

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2570 on: January 11, 2021, 08:03:37 AM »
...to complete a transaction off-line for a contact made via AirBnB?
Safe to say the second time it isn't unethical - correct (meaning if they first came via AirBnb, next time for sure you can transact directly, right?)?
Just had this with MovingHelp.com.. in the end I chose to book through the website
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Offline Shaya E

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2571 on: January 11, 2021, 10:12:56 AM »
...to complete a transaction off-line for a contact made via AirBnB?
Safe to say the second time it isn't unethical - correct (meaning if they first came via AirBnb, next time for sure you can transact directly, right?)?

The first time it's definitely unethical (and possibly illegal as well). Afterwards, I'm not sure.

Offline Yonah

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2572 on: January 11, 2021, 12:17:23 PM »
Thanks to everyone who responded... I just wanted to highlight a line in my original post:
During the pandemic, a lot of marathons/half-marathons/5ks, etc have gone virtual. In order to qualify as having finished the 'virtual race', you need to upload your activity from your GPS Watch/App etc. You have to have run the distance within a certain date range.

So here is my question - if two marathons have overlapping dates, is it ethical for me to run the marathon once and upload it to two different races for credit? (assuming that this isn't explicitly mentioned in the rules).

I also wanted to point out, that a lot of these races are done via an app like Strava. The way it is determined that you've accomplished the race is that you either record (or upload a recording from your watch). On many occasions, I've uploaded one activity, but Strava counted it towards several challenges. There is also no direct way for me to say which challenge I am completing with this activity - i.e. this is for Marathon A or Marathon B.

So from a rules perspective, it's either a)okay or b)while it's a known issue, the amount of people doing it is small enough that they're not concerned about it.


Offline yelped

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2573 on: January 12, 2021, 10:15:39 AM »
Colleges vary.
Ok, but I'm glad I went to one that didn't bend over backwards to make rules that don't make sense.

Offline shmuelb

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2574 on: January 24, 2021, 05:43:47 PM »
or b)while it's a known issue, the amount of people doing it is small enough that they're not concerned about it.

But the fact that it is a small percentage of participants who may have this issue so they don't bother to explicitly disallow that - does not mean that it is ok, IMHO.

For example, if a store in a safe neighborhood has piles of bread delivered in the early morning, before they open, even if it is a small amount of people who take without paying, and they do not pay a security guard to watch over it, how does that make it ok to steal? Not saying that applies in your case, but pointing out that the 2nd point sounds like an irrational rationalization.
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2575 on: February 02, 2021, 03:31:30 PM »
Some background information:
1. Airbnb has a referral program for guests and for hosts, where they pay the referrer once their referee is a guest or a host in an Airbnb for the first time.
2. I own Disney Vacation Club timeshares. The rules of the program 100% permit renting out rooms.

I want to earn host referral credits with Airbnb. Is it ethical for me to give interested parties one night at a luxury Disney World resort together with a "Make Money On Airbnb" book, in return for using my Airbnb referral link? They can keep all the profits from the listing (or they can even keep the night for themselves and use another property as the listing). Is this considered "gaming" the referral program?

Here are my 2 cents:
1. It is ethical because I am doing exactly what Airbnb is doing--offering financial incentives to host for the first time on Airbnb. Also, I am providing the book in order to assist and incentivize people to continue hosting after the free night is gone.

2. It's not ethical because most people who sign up will probably do it just to get the nice profit from the room and never host again, especially since they won't have anymore free rooms from me to list. But, here are my counter-arguments to this point: (a) the same thing can be said regarding the Airbnb referral program (ie: most people will host once for the incentive and won't do it again), (b) even if they never host again, simply having another account open and access to a new potential customer is worth it for Airbnb, and (c) even though I am only giving one free room to get people started, if someone has a good experience, they might rent their own private home, or maybe even find other properties to rent.

Thoughts?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2576 on: February 02, 2021, 03:36:30 PM »
Some background information:
1. Airbnb has a referral program for guests and for hosts, where they pay the referrer once their referee is a guest or a host in an Airbnb for the first time.
2. I own Disney Vacation Club timeshares. The rules of the program 100% permit renting out rooms.

I want to earn host referral credits with Airbnb. Is it ethical for me to give interested parties one night at a luxury Disney World resort together with a "Make Money On Airbnb" book, in return for using my Airbnb referral link? They can keep all the profits from the listing (or they can even keep the night for themselves and use another property as the listing). Is this considered "gaming" the referral program?

Here are my 2 cents:
1. It is ethical because I am doing exactly what Airbnb is doing--offering financial incentives to host for the first time on Airbnb. Also, I am providing the book in order to assist and incentivize people to continue hosting after the free night is gone.

2. It's not ethical because most people who sign up will probably do it just to get the nice profit from the room and never host again, especially since they won't have anymore free rooms from me to list. But, here are my counter-arguments to this point: (a) the same thing can be said regarding the Airbnb referral program (ie: most people will host once for the incentive and won't do it again), (b) even if they never host again, simply having another account open and access to a new potential customer is worth it for Airbnb, and (c) even though I am only giving one free room to get people started, if someone has a good experience, they might rent their own private home, or maybe even find other properties to rent.

Thoughts?

From a customer acquisition standpoint, a greater reward will do very little to change the odds of a new user using the service after the promotion ends.

I am nearly positive AirBnb would offer a greater reward themselves if they could do so without paying out of pocket. They would be thrilled if other people's money incentivizes sign-ups, the higher the bonus the better.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2577 on: February 02, 2021, 03:51:33 PM »
From a customer acquisition standpoint, a greater reward will do very little to change the odds of a new user using the service after the promotion ends.

I am nearly positive AirBnb would offer a greater reward themselves if they could do so without paying out of pocket. They would be thrilled if other people's money incentivizes sign-ups, the higher the bonus the better.

I agree with all of that.

But, let's put it another way. Let's say that Uber offered a referral bonus as well. Would it be ethical for me to pay someone to use my referral and loan them my car for the day? Would you say that the offer is really aimed at people who are comfortable using their own cars, and if someone needs a car in order to participate, they are not really the target audience? Or would you say that such person can have a good experience and then use their own personal car, or maybe even lease a car just for this purpose?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2578 on: February 02, 2021, 03:53:28 PM »
I agree with all of that.

But, let's put it another way. Let's say that Uber offered a referral bonus as well. Would it be ethical for me to pay someone to use my referral and loan them my car for the day? Would you say that the offer is really aimed at people who are comfortable using their own cars, and if someone needs a car in order to participate, they are not really the target audience? Or would you say that such person can have a good experience and then use their own personal car, or maybe even lease a car just for this purpose?
The later. User acquisition is about breaking the psychological barrier of trying something new / modifying behavior. Everything else pales in comparison.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2579 on: February 02, 2021, 04:57:10 PM »
The later. User acquisition is about breaking the psychological barrier of trying something new / modifying behavior. Everything else pales in comparison.

OK, I agree with this. Just wanted to hear other opinions to make sure I wasn't being biased. Thanks!