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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* If you have to ask, It's most likely not ethical.
« Last edited by UKinNYS on April 13, 2021, 11:51:23 AM »

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 556642 times)

Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2580 on: February 03, 2021, 09:43:04 AM »
@PlatinumGuy Does it make a difference how the offer is presented? Would you answer be the same if I paid someone to create their own account and gave them a property to list, and then I collected the profits from the rental (as opposed to offering a free night as an incentive to create their own account, and then allowing them to keep the profits)?

On the one hand, the end result is the same-- I helped someone break the psychological barrier of trying something new, and Airbnb has acquired another user.

On the other hand, you can say that, by paying someone and then collecting the profits from the rental, I essentially only paid someone to create another account for me (although obviously the account would be in the name of the new person, and they would have all control to it going forward).

Thanks!

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2581 on: February 03, 2021, 11:28:19 AM »
The later. User acquisition is about breaking the psychological barrier of trying something new / modifying behavior. Everything else pales in comparison.

But if they're not renting out their own space, are they really trying something new here?
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Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2582 on: February 03, 2021, 11:51:46 AM »
But if they're not renting out their own space, are they really trying something new here?

That's one of the points I was trying to make. Is the psychological barrier here opening up an account and providing all the information to Airbnb, or renting out your own space?

I would argue that it's the former, as there is no requirement to host your own house, and in fact, there are many people who buy or lease investment properties for the purpose of listing them on Airbnb. Also, maybe this rental is the gateway to having the user later rent out his house when he's away on vacation, or maybe even setting up a separate basement for this purpose.

But again, I'm biased, and that's why I'm posting here.

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2583 on: February 03, 2021, 10:15:32 PM »
@PlatinumGuy Does it make a difference how the offer is presented? Would you answer be the same if I paid someone to create their own account and gave them a property to list, and then I collected the profits from the rental (as opposed to offering a free night as an incentive to create their own account, and then allowing them to keep the profits)?

On the one hand, the end result is the same-- I helped someone break the psychological barrier of trying something new, and Airbnb has acquired another user.

On the other hand, you can say that, by paying someone and then collecting the profits from the rental, I essentially only paid someone to create another account for me (although obviously the account would be in the name of the new person, and they would have all control to it going forward).

Thanks!
I would be fairly comfortable doing it either way. I would be wary of AirBnb catching it though if you're using the same property under multiple accounts
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2584 on: February 04, 2021, 09:27:54 AM »
Okay, one more scenario.

Is it ethical if I find people who are already listing their own property for rent outside of Airbnb, and then rent it from them on the condition that it's done through Airbnb using my referral code? Practically speaking, I know that I can't be both the referrer and the renter, and that I would need to find a third person to do the renting. I'm asking about the ethicality, not the logistics.

Thanks!

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2585 on: February 04, 2021, 12:14:41 PM »
Okay, one more scenario.

Is it ethical if I find people who are already listing their own property for rent outside of Airbnb, and then rent it from them on the condition that it's done through Airbnb using my referral code? Practically speaking, I know that I can't be both the referrer and the renter, and that I would need to find a third person to do the renting. I'm asking about the ethicality, not the logistics.

Thanks!
Sounds like an excellent potential user for Airbnb
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2586 on: February 04, 2021, 01:21:43 PM »
I would be wary of AirBnb catching it though if you're using the same property under multiple accounts

Less likely if it's one location with a bunch of timeshare units (maybe even sharing the same address), especially if you use different pictures for each account.
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Offline crznan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2587 on: February 04, 2021, 03:21:31 PM »
Was wondering about using GC to buy MO. Does the transaction cost the store a processing fee? Any reason they should care if I'm using a debit card or GC?

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2588 on: February 04, 2021, 06:55:44 PM »
Was wondering about using GC to buy MO. Does the transaction cost the store a processing fee? Any reason they should care if I'm using a debit card or GC?
Good luck with that :)
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Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2589 on: February 10, 2021, 01:51:05 PM »
Right now, due to COVID, some airlines permit cancelling a flight at the last minute due to COVID, with no penalty.

I want to fly with my infant child, and not pay for his seat. The flight has a connection on the outbound leg, and is direct on the inbound leg.

Would it be ethical for me to book my child his own seat, and then, if the first leg of the outbound flight is not sold out, cancel his ticket the morning of the outbound flight so that his seat (next to mine) hopefully remains empty (and instead pay for a lap infant fee)?

Now, let's say we agree that the above is not unethical-- do I further need to confirm that all the other flights are not sold out? And does it make a difference if the inbound flight is sold out, as there remains a week after the outbound flight for someone else to purchase that ticket?




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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2590 on: February 10, 2021, 02:04:36 PM »
When Target runs a B2G1free deal, you can cancel 2 of the 3 items and
you'll still get ~33% off the remaining item. Do you think this is ethical?
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2591 on: February 10, 2021, 02:05:23 PM »
When Target runs a B2G1free deal, you can cancel 2 of the 3 items and it will give you ~33% off the remaining item.
Do you think this is ethical?
Cancel after ordering? They won't prorate the discount?

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2592 on: February 10, 2021, 02:06:16 PM »
Right now, due to COVID, some airlines permit cancelling a flight at the last minute due to COVID, with no penalty.

I want to fly with my infant child, and not pay for his seat. The flight has a connection on the outbound leg, and is direct on the inbound leg.

Would it be ethical for me to book my child his own seat, and then, if the first leg of the outbound flight is not sold out, cancel his ticket the morning of the outbound flight so that his seat (next to mine) hopefully remains empty (and instead pay for a lap infant fee)?

Now, let's say we agree that the above is not unethical-- do I further need to confirm that all the other flights are not sold out? And does it make a difference if the inbound flight is sold out, as there remains a week after the outbound flight for someone else to purchase that ticket?
Ethics aside, practically speaking you can book a refundable ticket on a random name and leave it active until after departure. If the flight is oversold they might reassign the seat before departure.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2593 on: February 10, 2021, 02:08:38 PM »
Ethics aside, practically speaking you can book a refundable ticket on a random name and leave it active until after departure. If the flight is oversold they might reassign the seat before departure.

If you miss a flight booked on a refundable ticket, you can still cancel for a full refund?

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2594 on: February 10, 2021, 02:12:48 PM »
If you miss a flight booked on a refundable ticket, you can still cancel for a full refund?
Generally speaking, yes. The airlines oversell flights in anticipation of no-shows.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2595 on: February 10, 2021, 02:42:51 PM »
Generally speaking, yes. The airlines oversell flights in anticipation of no-shows.

OK, good to know. Now I need to know whether it's ethical.

Offline KSMH

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2596 on: February 10, 2021, 02:47:32 PM »
Right now, due to COVID, some airlines permit cancelling a flight at the last minute due to COVID, with no penalty.

I want to fly with my infant child, and not pay for his seat. The flight has a connection on the outbound leg, and is direct on the inbound leg.

Would it be ethical for me to book my child his own seat, and then, if the first leg of the outbound flight is not sold out, cancel his ticket the morning of the outbound flight so that his seat (next to mine) hopefully remains empty (and instead pay for a lap infant fee)?

Now, let's say we agree that the above is not unethical-- do I further need to confirm that all the other flights are not sold out? And does it make a difference if the inbound flight is sold out, as there remains a week after the outbound flight for someone else to purchase that ticket?
Ethics aside, practically speaking you can book a refundable ticket on a random name

Just FYI this will be easier then buying a ticket for infant and cancelling.
You'll need to add the infant as a lap infant and in some tight timing it wont be practical.
Always praying for delayed baggage.

Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2597 on: February 10, 2021, 02:56:52 PM »
Just FYI this will be easier then buying a ticket for infant and cancelling.
You'll need to add the infant as a lap infant and in some tight timing it wont be practical.

But my whole plan on making this ethical relies on me keeping the ticket in the infant's name if the flight is fully booked. If I do the refundable ticket method, then I'm forced to cancel it (or keep it for an exorbitant sum which I'm not planning on doing).

I guess maybe the better question would be: is there an ethical way to "reserve" a seat on a plane by purchasing a ticket with the intent to cancel? I would say that it's fine provided that check on a regular basis that the flight is not sold out, and if it is, then I need to promptly release that seat. On a related note, is there any way to get an automatic message when a flight fills up?

Offline KSMH

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2598 on: February 10, 2021, 02:58:09 PM »
But my whole plan on making this ethical relies on me keeping the ticket in the infant's name if the flight is fully booked. If I do the refundable ticket method, then I'm forced to cancel it (or keep it for an exorbitant sum which I'm not planning on doing).

I guess maybe the better question would be: is there an ethical way to "reserve" a seat on a plane by purchasing a ticket with the intent to cancel? I would say that it's fine provided that check on a regular basis that the flight is not sold out, and if it is, then I need to promptly release that seat. On a related note, is there any way to get an automatic message when a flight fills up?
BTW TA's hold seats all the time...
Always praying for delayed baggage.

Offline Agoldsc1

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2599 on: February 10, 2021, 03:02:11 PM »
BTW TA's hold seats all the time...

With the Airline's permission (express or implied)?