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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* If you have to ask, It's most likely not ethical.
« Last edited by UKinNYS on April 13, 2021, 11:51:23 AM »

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 360731 times)

Online jj1000

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #260 on: May 15, 2012, 09:33:50 PM »
Nothing to do with the pool you work at. I wonder if a lifeguard is a mandated reporter. If you are and you don't report it's possible to get into major trouble(although probably unlikely in this case)
I've been giving life guarding courses for a few years and I have never seen in any of the red cross books or online references anything mentioning that a lifeguard is a mandated reporter. (If I am wrong that'd be quite embarrassing but I really don't think I am)
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #261 on: May 15, 2012, 09:38:21 PM »
Per the NYC websitea lifeguard is not by definition a mandated reporter, although depending on the circumstances its possible you would come under a different obligation such as a 'school official'
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Online jj1000

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #262 on: May 15, 2012, 09:49:51 PM »
Per the NYC websitea lifeguard is not by definition a mandated reporter, although depending on the circumstances its possible you would come under a different obligation such as a 'school official'
Phew thanks! But seriously what would you guys do in this situation. Would you confront the father? Call the mother? Tell his Rav? Nothing at all (it is his kid after all)?
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #263 on: May 15, 2012, 09:53:35 PM »
Phew thanks! But seriously what would you guys do in this situation. Would you confront the father? Call the mother? Tell his Rav? Nothing at all (it is his kid after all)?
I don't think this is substantial enough in itself to contact child services, but I would look for a very responsible family member (grandparent, etc) and alert him. I would probably speak to the rebbi or menhal in the school. I would question them and make sure they intend to follow up seriously, and if all else fails call child services (or one of their frum affiliates).
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline mclovin

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #264 on: May 15, 2012, 09:55:43 PM »
Phew thanks! But seriously what would you guys do in this situation. Would you confront the father? Call the mother? Tell his Rav? Nothing at all (it is his kid after all)?
if you are young it would prob make it worse as he wont want to listen to you. if you are older you prob should try to say something in a way that he will accept. maybe tell him that as the lifeguard its your responsibility

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Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #265 on: May 15, 2012, 10:00:43 PM »
I would probably speak to the rebbi or menhal in the school. I would question them and make sure they intend to follow up seriously, and if all else fails call child services (or one of their frum affiliates).
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #266 on: May 16, 2012, 12:45:59 AM »
Is this thread only for deal related ethics or general ethics? If the answer is the latter I have a question. I lifeguard by a pool and I saw a father hitting his 5 year old child multiple times on his bottom for a fairly inconsequential thing, I could see a real anger in the fathers face as if he was hitting him because he was actually mad. What would you do?
If you suspect abuse or maltreatment of the child you should report it.
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #267 on: May 16, 2012, 01:22:14 AM »
and if all else fails call child services (or one of their frum affiliates).
get a heter before, so you shouldn't have mesira/erkaot problems

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #268 on: May 16, 2012, 03:39:35 AM »
get a heter before, so you shouldn't have mesira/erkaot problems
I don't think this is substantial enough in itself to contact child services, but I would look for a very responsible family member (grandparent, etc) and alert him. I would probably speak to the rebbi or menhal in the school. I would question them and make sure they intend to follow up seriously, and if all else fails call child services (or one of their frum affiliates).
I'm not so familiar with it, but there should be professional frum organizitions with rabbincal service built in.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #269 on: May 16, 2012, 08:05:23 AM »
Follow up but I think an important point is context. Why did the father get mad? Is something going on in his life etc? Do you know him and his circumstances? Al tadin es chaverhca ad shetagia limkomo. But OTOH, be diligent.
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline karatemike

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #270 on: May 17, 2012, 05:45:08 PM »
Is this thread only for deal related ethics or general ethics? If the answer is the latter I have a question. I lifeguard by a pool and I saw a father hitting his 5 year old child multiple times on his bottom for a fairly inconsequential thing, I could see a real anger in the fathers face as if he was hitting him because he was actually mad. What would you do?

Confront the dad, try and calm him down and talk some sense into him. Help the kid.

Offline mek

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #271 on: May 17, 2012, 11:24:33 PM »
Confront the dad, try and calm him down and talk some sense into him. Help the kid.

Totally agree. The father will never think anythings wrong unless confronted at the time. If confronted after the fact he'll just brush it off that it was nothing or that you misunderstood the situation

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #272 on: May 18, 2012, 03:58:15 AM »
I think that it can make it worse. The dad maybe got mad because the son did something trivial but caused him embarrassment. If someone comes over, he may get even more mad at his son.
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline Q274

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #273 on: June 10, 2012, 01:58:57 AM »
I highly doubt the father will listen to anything you have to say (not you specifically but anyone) it also might make him angrier, and make him take out his frustration more on his son.

Maybe say something like "listen the pool rules are no physical contact, as it can lead to slipping into the water not my rules just letting you know" 

This way you are putting him less on the defensive, and he might actually think abt his actions- as opposed to if were to say to him "in my opinion....." U are putting him on the defensive, and he will never listen.

Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #274 on: June 12, 2012, 07:37:14 PM »

I was raised Roman Catholic and it is pretty simple for me. We are all God’s children.

Trying to understand this article, especially in light of "confession and forgiveness".
Pope’s ex-banker ‘fears for his life’
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/97dee988-b312-11e1-83a9-00144feabdc0.html
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 07:58:51 PM by U-no-me- »
Vote U-no-me '14!

Offline HelpMe

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #275 on: June 12, 2012, 07:53:52 PM »
Trying to understand this article, especially in light of "confession and forgiveness".
Pope’s ex-banker ‘fears for his life’
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/97dee988-b312-11e1-83a9-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1xco5lPvf
Link not working. Wants me to register.
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Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #276 on: June 12, 2012, 08:00:09 PM »
Link not working. Wants me to register.

I beleive it to be fixed now.
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #277 on: June 12, 2012, 08:02:44 PM »
I beleive it to be fixed now.
Nope. You seem to be having problems with links today.  :)
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Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #278 on: June 12, 2012, 08:04:36 PM »
Nope. You seem to be having problems with links today.  :)

LOL  ;D

About the link, I give up, seems not to be destined.

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #279 on: June 12, 2012, 08:07:43 PM »
About the link, I give up, seems not to be destined.
Maybe “divine intervention”.
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