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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* It's most likely not ethical.

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 299893 times)

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #285 on: July 21, 2012, 11:34:11 PM »
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=14560.msg266193#msg266193

Do I have to or should I return the extra $50 to Chase?
Es ken zayn a shaila oyb es is mutar tzu zayn machzir, freg dein LOR.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #286 on: July 22, 2012, 12:47:09 AM »
Es ken zayn a shaila oyb es is mutar tzu zayn machzir, freg dein LOR.

Lo sichaneim?
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #287 on: July 22, 2012, 12:51:24 AM »
Lo sichaneim?
yes. Es iz taus akum, un es ken zayn az bemakom she'ein kiddush hashem es iz asur machzir tzu zayn.
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #288 on: July 22, 2012, 12:53:59 AM »
Dan's wife had the same story.
Ask him what he did.
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Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #289 on: July 22, 2012, 06:07:26 AM »
Es ken zayn a shaila oyb es is mutar tzu zayn machzir, freg dein LOR.

Puhleeeeze, micama vikama sibos there is no shailo in regards to being machzir bichlal, If there is any shaila it is in regards to keeping it.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 06:22:40 AM by U_no_me »
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #290 on: July 22, 2012, 07:14:58 AM »
If the shareholders aren't aku"m, what does akum have to do w this?
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

Offline YudiG

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #291 on: July 22, 2012, 07:29:40 AM »
Interesting thread....I once had a similar shaila involving $$$$ that was sent to me by mistake by a major corp...I went to a well renowned rav/posek who told me unequivocally, return it!

Everything comes from above and being honest won't ever punish you...a story that is told about a major gvir that is known is when he first bought a house, they found valuable jewelry inside.

Being that they had acquired the contents, in theory, the find was theirs to keep. As a good Jew, he went to R' Moshe who said while perhaps it was yours, do the right thing and return it - Hashem will repay. The now gvir did so and as they say the rest is history.

R' Don Segal says that when we daven for parnassa on RH, we can daven that it come clean and not have to resort to anything 'shvartz'...amen.

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #292 on: July 22, 2012, 02:54:48 PM »
Puhleeeeze, micama vikama sibos there is no shailo in regards to being machzir bichlal, If there is any shaila it is in regards to keeping it.
I got a psak that if there isn't a shemetz of a chashash that the corp will chap, that it's asur to return, from a rav who paskens for tens of thousands of people. He also said that if there is a shemetz of a chashash you should return, cause of c"h. I repeat, ask your LOR, because mine, (who better know what he's talking about, bec. if not, halb Lakewood is benei nidah) said in a specific case that it's asur.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 02:57:53 PM by Lamdan »
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #293 on: July 22, 2012, 03:01:46 PM »
Why is a corp considered aku"m?
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

Offline MarkS

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #294 on: July 22, 2012, 03:08:52 PM »
Why is a corp considered aku"m?
Good question.
I don't know the answer, but m'inyan l'inyan b'oso inyan, about 10 years ago when MBNA was still around, I was told that 13% of it is owned by a yid who refuses to do a Heter Iska. I heard that Rav Yisroel Belsky was invloved, so I called him. He told me that it's muttar to hold the card, but not to carry a balance on it at the end of the month (and pay interest). Even though there's a concept of Shtar shekasuv bo ribbis which is assur, for some reason this was muttar to use as long as it's paid in full each week.

I wonder how corporations work in terms of Jewish ownership, but I've never heard of needing to use a heter mechira for shabbos for a guy who owns a small amount of stocks in a company.

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #295 on: July 22, 2012, 03:14:16 PM »
Becomes of the ownership structure its not a probelm on shabbos,although I don't know why.

Lending to a corp R Moshe paskened is not a ribbis problem, as due to limitedliability laws. There is nobody personally liable and thus no shiabud hagof, so the loan is not considered an halvaa in halchic terms.

Burrowing from a corp is more complicated, I'm not sure.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #296 on: July 22, 2012, 03:33:19 PM »
Why is a corp considered aku"m?
i hear ya.
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Offline dans fan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #297 on: August 05, 2012, 12:47:41 AM »
(who better know what he's talking about, bec. if not, halb Lakewood is benei nidah)
-1.  i know ppl that answer shailos in hilchos nidah and are on the mark but when it comes to choshen mispat or other parts of shulchon aruch that they havent learned about that exact case and would need to either figure out what sugyos go into this specific case or they would need to be medameh milsa lemilsa,and they are missing that skill  and are way off 

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #298 on: August 05, 2012, 02:38:38 AM »
-1.  i know ppl that answer shailos in hilchos nidah and are on the mark but when it comes to choshen mispat or other parts of shulchon aruch that they havent learned about that exact case and would need to either figure out what sugyos go into this specific case or they would need to be medameh milsa lemilsa,and they are missing that skill  and are way off
good point. but this specific rav if he doesn't know what he's talking about, half of lakewood would be being mechallel shabbos, and doing the wrong things with the chamurdike fertility shaalos, akitzur, he's very very respected, that was my point.
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #299 on: August 05, 2012, 02:41:23 AM »
Just to add to this subject on taus akum....


''כותב הבאר הגולה, "ראיתי רבים גדלו והעשירו מן טעות שהטעו העכו''ם, ולא הצליחו

עי' בבאר הגולה חו''מ סי' שמ''ח אות ה' שכותב וז''ל, ואני כותב זאת לדורות, שראיתי רבים גדלו והעשירו מן טעות שהטעו העכו''ם, ולא הצליחו וירדו נכסיהן לטמיון ולא הניחו אחריהם ברכה, כמ''ש בספר החסידים סימן תתרע''ד, [ו]רבים אשר קדשו ה' והחזירו טעויות העכו''ם בדבר חשוב, גדלו והעשירו והצליחו והניחו יתרם לעולליהם, עכ''ל.
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