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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* It's most likely not ethical.

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 299766 times)

Offline rots5

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #300 on: August 05, 2012, 03:29:50 AM »
these shailas of corporation is much bigger than just keeping the money, i.e. i just finished tevilas kielim, and chalav akum, and so on, 2 things if a jew owns a stock in the company is it considered chalov yisroel? or do i have to do tevila? bec the chinese person who is buliding the product is doing it bec of his say so, which might make it ok - there are so many q's about this, when hagoan r' moshe writes aout chalov akum he calls is cholv companies, bec he is under the notion that maybe a non-jew fully owns the company or maybe even 51% of it, or maybe even if a jew owns part of it but does he sit in on the meetings.... so its much more of an ethical question when we dont even realize it, its sce=ary, (bec i only learned this now.....:-(
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Offline shmuelb

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #301 on: August 07, 2012, 06:04:43 PM »
these shailas of corporation is much bigger than just keeping the money, i.e. i just finished tevilas kielim, and chalav akum, and so on, 2 things if a jew owns a stock in the company is it considered chalov yisroel? or do i have to do tevila? bec the chinese person who is buliding the product is doing it bec of his say so, which might make it ok - there are so many q's about this, when hagoan r' moshe writes aout chalov akum he calls is cholv companies, bec he is under the notion that maybe a non-jew fully owns the company or maybe even 51% of it, or maybe even if a jew owns part of it but does he sit in on the meetings.... so its much more of an ethical question when we dont even realize it, its sce=ary, (bec i only learned this now.....:-(

Can you please explain, which part is the chidush? Also sorry for my ignarance, I do not know the sugya, but by Cholov Yisroel I always thought it has to be under observation of a Yisroel at the time of chaliva, no?

Thanks!
siyag lachachma :-)

Online Ergel

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Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #302 on: August 07, 2012, 09:42:54 PM »
Also sorry for my ignarance, I do not know the sugya, but by Cholov Yisroel I always thought it has to be under observation of a Yisroel at the time of chaliva, no?

Thanks!
+1, pretty sure ownership is only relevant for gevinas akum
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Offline rots5

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Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #303 on: August 08, 2012, 12:57:58 AM »
+1, pretty sure ownership is only relevant for gevinas akum

r' moshes famous heter is that even with out seeing we can say its ok (chalov companies) and what if i own a part in that company - then it shoud technically be cholov isroel,  of course r' eliyashiv holds all this is not true, and theres no such thing as a jew owning "part" of a company thru stock, he holds that one must be sitting on board meetings and have a say in the company.
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Online Ergel

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Re: Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #304 on: August 08, 2012, 01:05:41 AM »
r' moshes famous heter is that even with out seeing we can say its ok (chalov companies) and what if i own a part in that company - then it shoud technically be cholov isroel,  of course r' eliyashiv holds all this is not true, and theres no such thing as a jew owning "part" of a company thru stock, he holds that one must be sitting on board meetings and have a say in the company.
I think you are misunderstanding something. Rav moshe's heter if milk has nothing to do with ownership.
He has a separate teshuva about company ownership with regards to choshen mishpat and ribis, I believe.
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Offline rots5

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #305 on: August 08, 2012, 01:13:42 AM »
i can be mistaken, the way i was told and learned it is that they are connected between the heter and now the ownership as well, but ok, i will go bak and do it over :-) thanks thats the point of chazara...right? r' fiener once asked me where im holding in a mesechata, i said about to finish...he said gr8 this way u can start again sooner...:)
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Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #306 on: August 08, 2012, 01:17:03 AM »
I think you are misunderstanding something. Rav moshe's heter of milk has nothing to do with ownership.
He has a separate teshuva about company ownership with regards to choshen mishpat and ribis, I believe.
+1   

Offline rots5

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #307 on: August 08, 2012, 01:21:10 AM »
i know its all about the reiya, but like is said he was also talking about it to the company as well, then.
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Online Ergel

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Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #308 on: August 08, 2012, 01:22:34 AM »
i know its all about the reiya, but like is said he was also talking about it to the company as well, then.
-1
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Offline rots5

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #309 on: August 08, 2012, 01:30:11 AM »
ok then, thanks for correcting me, sorry if i caused misconfusion, will call later today to clarify all these points
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Offline Shotguns

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #310 on: August 08, 2012, 01:44:36 PM »
Is it ethical to take advantage of another person if he makes mistake? I'm referring to the elal tix

Offline AJK

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #311 on: August 08, 2012, 02:20:10 PM »
Is it ethical to take advantage of another person if he makes mistake? I'm referring to the elal tix

You question begs the question.
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Offline shmuelb

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #312 on: August 08, 2012, 05:38:37 PM »
Is it ethical to ask questions just for the sake of asking, not caring about the answer, just about a higher post count? Is it ethical to ask a question in order to attack anyone who will answer (baiting)?

Anyways, about Elal, I am still thinking about it. Anyone who had this question could shoot first and ask afterwards, within the cancellation period.

A similar question can be asked (but on a different plane) can you go to a store and only buy the item which is steeply discounted? They make a big sale to get people to walk in the door and then those people will buy more items at a profit to the store (think Ralphs Matzos)? It may be the same as asking - can you get a cc with a signup bonus al daas to cancel it right after (hitting the spend threshold)?

I do not know the answers to these ethical questions, does anyone here? Ever asked a competent LOR? (not ENT Phd)
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Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #313 on: August 08, 2012, 06:23:30 PM »
A similar question can be asked (but on a different plane) can you go to a store and only buy the item which is steeply discounted? They make a big sale to get people to walk in the door and then those people will buy more items at a profit to the store (think Ralphs Matzos)?
 

I hope you're joking about this one.

 
Quote

 It may be the same as asking - can you get a cc with a signup bonus al daas to cancel it right after (hitting the spend threshold)?
I hear the question slightly more but again this is the risk companies take to try and try you're business. Even if you would tell them your plan they would still tell you to get it, a chance for your business
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #314 on: August 08, 2012, 07:06:55 PM »
BTW, I think this whole thread has no shaychus. Is it Ethical? I don't care! What does the Torah think? Is it al pi Torah - Halachically and Hashkaficly?, that's what I want to know. Ethics - based on what?  - farshtunkene Western Culture, that thinks there's nothing wrong with walking around halb naked. I think, Is it Ethical, is the wrong way for a frum jew to phrase a question if something is right or wrong. Is it Al Pi Torah?, that's relevant.
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