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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* If you have to ask, It's most likely not ethical.
« Last edited by UKinNYS on April 13, 2021, 11:51:23 AM »

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 347675 times)

Offline HelpMe

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2012, 06:16:39 PM »
I realize sometimes there is a difference between me'iker hadin (the letter of the law in case HelpMe is reading   ;) ) and Lifnim (beyond what's required) but usually your da'as torah will inform you what the proper thing to do is when they are asked
Not that is what I call consideration for other members. TY!
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #61 on: January 08, 2012, 06:22:25 PM »
Halacha is halacha is halacha. I'm not disputing that. But there are times when one's moral compass could (and I'd argue should) be shifting to the unethical side even despite it being halachically OK.

I'd suggest buying a camera with the sole intention of using it for three days while on vacation and then returning when the vacation is over to be one of those instances.

Has it ever happened to you (or someone you know) that you got something with the sole intention of returning it and then for whatever reason (liked the item, forgot to return it, it got a little ruined) ended up keeping it? Or how about once you were going to the target "gmach" to "borrow" a camera you bought the rest of your trip supplies from there? Also when you do return the item what does target do with it? Maybe you actually should call target executive offices to find out what their feeling on the matter is

Offline AJK

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2012, 06:26:46 PM »
Maybe you actually should call target executive offices to find out what their feeling on the matter is

I'm pretty confident I know what their feelings are.

What if YOU owned an electronics store? What would you think?
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Offline Saver2000

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2012, 06:27:55 PM »
So because it doesn't say it explicitly in the TOS and T&C, it's OK?

What about buying, say, a digital camera from Target for use on an upcoming weekend vacation with the full intention of returning it afterwards. You think that's ethical? Because it doesn't explicitly proscribe that action in Target's return policy?

Do you think Target would have no problem with such  a course of action if you asked them?

I'm no rabbi , just my 2 cents ---  don't you think the fact that AMEX gives 60 days to cancel/("think about it") before charging the fee says something? 

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2012, 06:28:20 PM »
I'm pretty confident I know what their feelings are.

What if YOU owned an electronics store? What would you think?

When I own a chain the size of target I'll be sure to let you know  :P

Offline Dan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2012, 06:32:09 PM »
I'm pretty confident I know what their feelings are.

What if YOU owned an electronics store? What would you think?
Why don't you call AMEX Return protection and let us know what they say when you ask if you can buy a GPS a return it to them in 2 months when you're done with your summer vacation after the store won't take it back any more?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline AJK

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2012, 06:32:40 PM »
When I own a chain the size of target I'll be sure to let you know  :P

Why jump to that size? What about if you owned an electronics store on Avenue J in Brooklyn?
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #67 on: January 08, 2012, 06:33:53 PM »
Why don't you call AMEX Return protection and let us know what they say when you ask if you can buy a GPS a return it to them in 2 months when you're done with your summer vacation after the store won't take it back any more?

Oh but that's not good enough. You have to get in touch with the CEO of AMEX and ask.

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #68 on: January 08, 2012, 06:34:41 PM »
Why jump to that size? What about if you owned an electronics store on Avenue J in Brooklyn?

Did you ever notice how most of the small mom and pop shops don't have such liberal return policies?

Offline HelpMe

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #69 on: January 08, 2012, 06:35:00 PM »
Why don't you call AMEX Return protection and let us know what they say when you ask if you can buy a GPS a return it to them in 2 months when you're done with your summer vacation after the store won't take it back any more?
They will say no problem.
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #70 on: January 08, 2012, 06:35:12 PM »
I'm no rabbi , just my 2 cents ---  don't you think the fact that AMEX gives 60 days to cancel/("think about it") before charging the fee says something?

I do. But I don't think AmEx management appreciates people who sign up solely for the bonus and then cancel.

Proof? How many CC companies do you know who just can't get enough of churners?
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #71 on: January 08, 2012, 06:38:17 PM »
Did you ever notice how most of the small mom and pop shops don't have such liberal return policies?

I wonder why that is...

The fact remains, just because it isn't written in the return policy does not mean they encourage the "renting" of their merchandise.

I have to say I'm somewhat surprised. Do you actually believe that Target would condone such a practice or is this just an argument l'shma?
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #72 on: January 08, 2012, 06:45:16 PM »
I wonder why that is...

The fact remains, just because it isn't written in the return policy does not mean they encourage the "renting" of their merchandise.

I have to say I'm somewhat surprised. Do you actually believe that Target would condone such a practice or is this just an argument l'shma?

I think that I don't know a lot that goes on in such a store so I'm offering ideas why they might not be against it. Do you know that they are not interested in any of the reasons mentioned or just straight up for the PR ?

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #73 on: January 08, 2012, 06:50:11 PM »
I think that I don't know a lot that goes on in such a store so I'm offering ideas why they might not be against it. Do you know that they are not interested in any of the reasons mentioned or just straight up for the PR ?

If you're asking if I am an executive at Target, the answer is no, I am not.

If you're asking me if I think Target management would have an issue with people buying things with the express intention of returning them a few days later, why yes, yes I am.
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #74 on: January 08, 2012, 06:52:08 PM »
If you're asking if I am an executive at Target, the answer is no, I am not.

If you're asking me if I think Target management would have an issue with people buying things with the express intention of returning them a few days later, why yes, yes I am.

Great. So now both sides have been thoroughly discussed

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #75 on: January 08, 2012, 06:56:42 PM »
So just to be clear. You don't find the practice of "renting" to be unethical?
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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #76 on: January 08, 2012, 06:58:03 PM »
So just to be clear. You don't find the practice of "renting" to be unethical?

I asked and was told that it's okay so no, I don't think it is.

Offline Q274

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #77 on: January 08, 2012, 07:19:45 PM »
Just for a start, something that has been bothering me for a while.
Is it ethical to use your 'hatzolah/shmirah/ chaveirim/etc. Parking permit to park on a handicap spot when you are not on a call/emergency (but just plain lazy)?!
This really bothers me when I see it happening in (Jewish) shopping areas.
1) the parking permit is not for when you are on a call, You dont need one when you are on a call even if you dont have one when you are actually on a call you can park where you want/need

2) now that that has been said, the purpose for the permits is so that the car can be near by if G-D forbid there actually is an emergency and the member needs to leave asap-  let me ask you: If let us say you were in that jewish shopping area and you were having G-D forbid a stroke or chest pains would you want this member to be running around the lot looking for his car?????????

3) i for sure find it un ethical to jump to conclusions just because that is what you would have done if you were in that situation.


DISCLAIMER: i am not saying that these members are not lazy but i am saying 1) they have a legit excuse this time   2) dont make assumptions



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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #78 on: January 08, 2012, 07:20:50 PM »
I asked and was told that it's okay so no, I don't think it is.

You asked about cards or about renting an item from a store? Because i hear a huge difference- just saying

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #79 on: January 08, 2012, 07:26:02 PM »
You asked about cards or about renting an item from a store? Because i hear a huge difference- just saying

borrowing but again I want to stress not to rely on me and to ask your own posek