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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* If you have to ask, It's most likely not ethical.
« Last edited by UKinNYS on April 13, 2021, 11:51:23 AM »

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 409468 times)

Offline zale

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2000 on: July 16, 2015, 03:45:29 PM »
As entertaining and even correct your point may be ...It still wouldnt constituent a Chilul Hashem because  chilul Hashem is a halachick term and like all halachick terms have definitions, so does this one.  You are correct that it may not look so great to a bystander but it hasnt any relevance; unlike weather the action of returning the item is legitimate . The fact that it is legitimate is more important to the definition of chilul Hashem then your " ethics " which bare no importance.

Taken from OU.org:

The third category is what we typically mean when we talk about chillul Hashem: when someone who should know better acts in a fashion that is perceived to be beneath him. In a Talmudic discussion of what would constitute a chillul Hashem, Rav said it would be if he didnít pay his butcher on time (Yoma 86a). Thatís not such a grievous thing but coming from Rav, it reflects badly on Torah scholars. Each of us at our own level is responsible to strive to act upward and not stoop down.

The reason for this mitzvah is gratitude to God. He created us and gave us everything. How horrible would we be to act in a fashion that makes Him look bad and causes people to say, ďThatís how Jews act?Ē or ďThatís how religious people act?


Let me guess: you disagree?

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2001 on: July 16, 2015, 03:46:22 PM »
Taken from OU.org:

The third category is what we typically mean when we talk about chillul Hashem: when someone who should know better acts in a fashion that is perceived to be beneath him. In a Talmudic discussion of what would constitute a chillul Hashem, Rav said it would be if he didnít pay his butcher on time (Yoma 86a). Thatís not such a grievous thing but coming from Rav, it reflects badly on Torah scholars. Each of us at our own level is responsible to strive to act upward and not stoop down.

The reason for this mitzvah is gratitude to God. He created us and gave us everything. How horrible would we be to act in a fashion that makes Him look bad and causes people to say, ďThatís how Jews act?Ē or ďThatís how religious people act?


Let me guess: you disagree?
nicely done

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2002 on: July 16, 2015, 03:57:14 PM »
Here we go with this crap again. If you don't know the difference between ethics and religion you should just keep your mouth shut. You want to discuss religion then go start a thread about it preferably tomorrow.
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Offline ADG

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2003 on: July 16, 2015, 04:19:21 PM »
Taken from OU.org:

The third category is what we typically mean when we talk about chillul Hashem: when someone who should know better acts in a fashion that is perceived to be beneath him. In a Talmudic discussion of what would constitute a chillul Hashem, Rav said it would be if he didnít pay his butcher on time (Yoma 86a). Thatís not such a grievous thing but coming from Rav, it reflects badly on Torah scholars. Each of us at our own level is responsible to strive to act upward and not stoop down.

The reason for this mitzvah is gratitude to God. He created us and gave us everything. How horrible would we be to act in a fashion that makes Him look bad and causes people to say, ďThatís how Jews act?Ē or ďThatís how religious people act?


Let me guess: you disagree?

Appears I am wrong my apologizes

Offline Aaaron

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2004 on: July 16, 2015, 06:13:26 PM »
Appears I am wrong my apologizes

*slow clap*

Now there's a man.  Someone who can own up and admit when they're wrong. 

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2005 on: July 16, 2015, 06:57:14 PM »
Now there's a man.  Someone who can own up and admit when they're wrong.
My post count would double if I did that.  :)
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Offline Freddie

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2006 on: July 16, 2015, 06:57:34 PM »
What do you think a Chillul Hashem is? Didn't I already see this argument somewhere in the JS section of DDF?

The word "legitimately" has no place here. The question is if it is ethical, i.e. despite the fact that the retailer allows the return of the item, is it wrong to return an item which you clearly have gotten full use out of?

Here we are adding another variable into the question: the person returning the item is an observant Jew. Observant Jews claim to follow the Torah and to conduct themselves in a G-Dly manner. We teach our children that we are a chosen nation, and that we ought to conduct ourselves in a more refined manner. We teach our children that we are to be A Light Unto the Nations. Heck, we even ask the government to give us unique privileges, like allowing us to serve in agencies that do not allow beards - which some of us grow because we are a holy nation, and to enact workplace discrimination laws so that we can observe Shabbat and the Holidays.

So a gentile is standing in Costco, and he observes as a Frum Jew walks in with a pee-stained, yellowing mattress that is at least seven years old, and he returns it for a full refund...

pee-stained mattress...  ;D ;D ;D
you paint a picture, my friend.

Offline Redbull3

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2007 on: July 16, 2015, 07:07:57 PM »
*slow clap*

Now there's a man.  Someone who can own up and admit when they're wrong.

+1

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2008 on: July 21, 2015, 12:58:58 AM »
Here I took a look at the thread to point out the Rambam (Yesodei Hatorah 5:3), and find that it's already been settled peacefully.

Nicely done indeed, on all ends.

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2009 on: July 21, 2015, 09:49:56 AM »
Here I took a look at the thread to point out the Rambam (Yesodei Hatorah 5:3), and find that it's already been settled peacefully.

Nicely done indeed, on all ends.
i saw the user name began with "Ch" and for some reason i assumed it was CM
I then saw the post and had to look back at the user name...

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2010 on: July 21, 2015, 09:51:46 AM »
To post something you know is against DDF rules but you do it anyway?
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Offline AJK

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2011 on: July 21, 2015, 11:35:01 AM »
To post something you know is against DDF rules but you do it anyway?

I love questions in this thread that no rational person could justify as being ethical, yet are asked anyway.
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Offline Super Speed

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2012 on: July 21, 2015, 02:48:51 PM »
To post something you know is against DDF rules but you do it anyway?
If you're referring to jet I don't understand the issue, there's no reason posting deals from there shouldn't be allowed its not worse than amazon. Do discuss about Jet Anywhere that's the CB part of it and that would be against the rules.

Offline aygart

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2013 on: July 21, 2015, 02:50:09 PM »
If you're referring to jet I don't understand the issue, there's no reason posting deals from there shouldn't be allowed its not worse than amazon. Do discuss about Jet Anywhere that's the CB part of it and that would be against the rules.
This was discussed in one of the jet threads but removed by a mod
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2014 on: July 21, 2015, 03:10:51 PM »
I love questions in this thread that no rational person could justify as being ethical, yet are asked anyway.
It is JS and fun to see how some do rationalize it.
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Offline snapit

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2015 on: July 22, 2015, 03:14:38 PM »
Title should be changed to "can you find me a place to be  מורה התור" (I don't know how to spell that)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2016 on: July 22, 2015, 03:15:48 PM »
(I don't know how to spell that)
That never stopped the rest of us so give it a try.
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Offline Aaaron

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2017 on: July 22, 2015, 04:41:14 PM »
That never stopped the rest of us so give it a try.

Loosely translated: Title should be changed to "can you find me a [halakhic] justification"

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2018 on: July 22, 2015, 06:23:00 PM »
Amazon have me a "good will credit" because I bought an item with a code and then returned it because it was the wrong item, and when I wanted to reorder it the code didn't work. So they gave me the code amount after I reordered it. Of course the same thing happened again so I returned it. They refunded me he full price of the item. But I still have the credit. Do I need to say anything?
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Offline PutANameToIt

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #2019 on: August 12, 2015, 07:10:57 AM »
Looked through a lot of this thread expecting for this to be discussed ad nauseum, can;t seem to find it, so I ask forgiveness for those that are bothered by the topic coming up again.

I would prefer the answer with just facts not personal views, and if you'd rather pm that would be great as well...
What are the legalities of selling points? Is it in the T&C of the contract I agreed to with each individual reward program and airline program? Are the banks/airlines makpid about not selling the miles? Are you allowed to book flights/hotels for other people without getting paid? Do you own your points/miles?

What are the mainstream heterim going around for selling points, if any?

Thank you so much in advance!